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The pricks who were arrested in Abel Smith Street Wellington from this were under suspicion of being involved in the organised ripping down of our film night posters at The Southern cross each month as well.
So, we have Maori Sovereignty Groups, Activist Groups, Environmental Groups and "Peace Groups" implicated as part of the "Terror Network"
Phones and conversations were bugged and many people were obviously placed under surveillance over months beforehand.
They claim Terrorist Groups were running training camps deep inside mountain ranges, those involved in this particular activity numbered in the 10s apparently.
Firearms were seized across the Nth Island and police expect to recover machine guns and grenades.
Strangely the police announced to media this morning that they intended to raid more properties involved in the operation.
It isnt that strange when you think about though. This means that they still have people and properties still under surveillance. They will be watching and listening for any activity as people hear this news.
Now the part that disturbs me is that they have labeled Peace Groups, Activist groups, Environmental Groups and Maori Sovereignty Groups as Terror Groups in the media.
This is a landmark event.
This demonstrates a large scale surveillance operation involving so called Activist Groups resulting in less than 20 arrests.
It also permanently blights the reputation of everyone involved in any Activism activity that could be lumped under any of the banners listed above.
I believe this marks the day that any groups of people in New Zealand who stand and question authority in any significant legal way are classed as potential Terrorist Groups.
Expect to be placed under surveillance people if you do any more than what your told to do by your masters from here on people. Especially if you intend to or do publicly question authority. Such people after all are clearly Terrorists or associated with such.
Let us watch closely how the media spins this event.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:40 pm Post Subject:
over time , i've met a few of these people , who have military weapons , one guy offered me hand-grenades , another (in the Eastern Bay of Plenty, as it happens) was boasting about a home-made rocket , that was his pride and joy
in the seventies , i was very casually involved , in Christchurch, with an organisation called OHMS......organisation to halt military service........that was when Norm Kirk got in , and they scrapped compulsory conscription about a week before my nineteenth birthday
the funniest thing was, the police there, were sure OHMS was a marxist cell, and a threat to national security , and it was unbelievable how quickly they were onto me , and followed me in the street , twice this happened when i had just hitch-hiked in from the north island
i guess they were monitoring the ferry passenger list , and certainly they were looking out for my face in the Square . i guess Christchurch was a bit light-on for excitement in those days ........ boy , those coppers were sharp!
anyway , i'd still feel safer talking to a policeman , than the types i've met with illegal weapons and dangerous secrets . also , as far as national service goes , wouldn't it be a great thing to have the majority of our young people trained in peacekeeping skills ? including armed defence of the country , agricultural and educational and medical skills ? and to be thrown in with other young people from all different backgrounds , in a place where all are equal , for a year or so , at least? get a bit fit and disciplined?
if the national service was organised like that , i'd be in like a flash .........i'm sure there'd be a shortage of political philosophers, good ones , anyway
so try to stay onside with the constabulary , communication defuses misunderstandings !
if the laws seem harsh , repressive and designed to herd us into slavery by degrees , tell your local MP to ask hard questions in parliament, or get a petition up
also , by the way , there have always been spiritual schools in the bush . i would bet big heaps , that of the people training in the mountains , only a very small percentage are cultivating their anger
Closeup TV1 was scathing of the event.
The 3 guests they had blasted the action. One said that any terrorism likely to happen in NZ would likely be state sponsored and another referred to actions similar in the UK and Aussie to coincide with governments trying to push through anti-terrorism laws just as our govt is attempting to do right now!
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 pm Post Subject:
yes indeed , long may the media stay free
those words about the state-sponsored terrorism , and manipulation to ease the introduction of repressive laws , may be true , the next few days may see this come about
If you want to see how bad it is here , check out the Port Arthur story.
google nexus martin bryant
the newspapers and tv were thoroughly prepped , and afterwards heavily muzzled
the judiciary and elements in the police were corrupt to the back teeth
the prime minister suspended some critical due processes
it's a very dark and horrifying story , but valuable to study . the lynch pin was the control over the media, and the orchestrated stimulation of public feeling. Due process of law was swept aside
it's so important at times like this , to communicate with members of the police. they must not become isolated . we pay their wages , not the politicians ( we pay their wages too )
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:15 am Post Subject:
smashdracs wrote:
The pricks who were arrested in Abel Smith Street Wellington from this were under suspicion of being involved in the organised ripping down of our film night posters at The Southern cross each month as well
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:38 pm Post Subject:
Ive explained it by way of PM melody, I best point out that I have no idea who was arrested or any proof that they were involved. A better way to say it is there has been an organised ongoing attack against the advertising of the film nights which we suspect other activists have been doing. It could be anyone doing it though and we dont really mind anyway as we are well enough organised to just keep sticking up more :P It pissed me off for a while only because I am passionate about confronting society and opening things up.
I respect other groups who are genuine in their efforts to do similar things with issues they are passionate about.
It is a mad mad world we live in. Every few weeks I question whether its time to shut my big mouth and move to the countryside to grow organic vegetables and live peacefully.
New Zealand police have arrested 17 people and seized a number of weapons during a series of anti-terror raids.
More than 300 police were involved in the operation, reportedly targeting Maori sovereignty and environmental activists - not foreign groups.
Police Commissioner Howard Broad said those arrested had used firearms and other weapons at military-style training camps.
Among those held was the prominent Maori rights campaigner, Tame Iti.
The North Island raids were the first use of the country's Terrorism Suppression Act.
The people targeted were from "a range of motivations" and from various ethnicities, the police chief said.
"Based on the information and the activity known to have taken place, I decided it was prudent that action should be taken in the interests of public safety," Mr Broad said.
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:46 am Post Subject:
I spoke with an individual closely involved with the targeted groups here in Wellington tonight.
Our differences are put to the side at the moment, they are in shock and all the implications of this havent sunk in for everyone involved down here yet.
There is a big effort underway to pull together all affected parties from across the country and address what has happened.
There is much more to come out over the next few days and weeks I feel.
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:00 pm Post Subject:
There was a very good turnout at the Wellington district court this afternoon to support those arrested in Wellington.
The level of feeling and emotion amongst the community here over this was obvious today.
There will be a big fallout from this weeks events. I predict that this backfires on the Government and the Police.
The level of discussion amongst many different groups and individuals happening around Wellington about this is very heartening and there is much to discuss. People affected here (There are many) are still letting things sink in and it was great that so many people turned up at such short notice to peacefully protest this afternoon.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:27 pm Post Subject:
that's great , smashdracs
the police are the meat in the sandwich
if they are not approached in a friendly way by the populace , they WILL be approached with extra money (printed out of thin air , but for which honest workers will pay interest) by "sympathetic" pompleturds
Its still a bit early to judge this one folks, who knows what went on. Its all rumour at the moment and if theyre using illegal weapons and setting off bombs Id say the swoop was justified (Oh my god did I just sound like a shill :D )
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:45 pm Post Subject:
correct me if i'm wrong , my info is that the police are at pains to put things in perspective , they are saying that it is infractions of firearms laws
(mind you , they got onto it by means of dodgey surveillance laws)
how do you spell dodgy ? with or without an e ?
it seems to be the media who are beating the "TERRORIST" drum?
the media have been corrupt and manipulated from the top down , now , for decades . this must be a signal , that if we people don't require objectivity and impartiality from our news services , then , perhaps , don't we deserve the abject slavery we are certainly otherwise going to get?
There nothing better than to wreck your countries economy by using words like 'terrorists' and 'New Zealand' in the same sentence. Papers from around the world carried this story. Tourism is our big bread winner and this stupid government uses a crap law to scare away the punters. It seems crazy to me that they didnt just use the firearms act to launch their little sorte but no they had to go and sh"t in their own nest. No brains...(rant finished)
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:40 pm Post Subject:
well , Deano , i'm sure you've put your finger on it
i remember , (being a bit ancient) , when you got taken home after a certain time of day , if you were hitch-hiking around , particularly in the S.I,.
then this phrase "hospitality industry" appeared , and true hospitality evaporated like yellow snow
New Zealand forty years ago , could afford free education for all , to tertiary level , free health care of a very high standard , with no obscene waiting lists , the highest rate of literacy in the whole world , thanks to a subsidy on books , milk and bread that were cheap as chips , thanks also to subsidies
we had a society in which co-operation was as healthy as competition
now , both of them are discouraged by the intelligentsia
we have ever - encroaching blah- blah mediocrity
when Muldoon got in , he was "persuaded" to borrow squillions from the rockefellers (see the opal files) to keep NZ in the front of the rat-race .
guess what ? we've been working like dogs ever since , for whom? not for ourselves , brother
freedom comes with a price
you want to be a slave with a bunch of toxic toys? or a free man with fewer but better possessions? no-brainer ? i think so
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:00 am Post Subject:
i forgot to say , New Zealanders built up that healthy world i was talking about , through primary production , and inventive industry
there was a good balance between unions and capitalists
there were still statesmen like Keith Holyoake around . At least he was dignified
there is no reason why we cannot regain that situation to do so , all we need is enough people to understand how the financial mafia operate , that's all
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:56 pm Post Subject:
Heaps has happened since this first happened!
Im on the rum tonight so wont do a big post But this thread needs to be bumped cause with all the $h*t thats happened since "The Dawn Raids", warrants some discussion.
The Police story is crumbling and the Government should be feeling scared as well.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:39 am Post Subject:
i have been given some background info , from a friend in the Bay of Plenty , which figures very large in this discussion
some of the policemen's actions , which have struck anger, include:
impeding the lawful passage of a seriously ill patient , en route to urgent medical treatment . this was the first vehicle stopped , and was held for searching , for a length of time , such as constituted contempt for the patient's life
the other offence attributed to the police , was the confiscation of women's underware , apparently with the objective of causing humiliation , and displaying contempt
it makes you wonder what kind of brainwashing the police officers went through , prior to the raids
the other piece of information , is that an important community leader , who had been battling ill-health for years , died approximately a month ago
This great man , Hohepa , was a genius in the field of community relations
It was he who laid the foundations for the really mature way the community responded to this utterly lamentable exercise
without him , the local police are going to find it much , much more difficult to re-establish trust with the community , which they have said they intend to do
There is a good book written by Paul Moon , called "Tohunga" which is a partial biography of Hohepa , and gives a window onto his wise vision , of the way for people to relate successfully in community
It will be in the local library , and i think it is still in print
there are many ways we can do something to mitigate the sting that has been inflicted on a large community , in response to the paranoid perceptions about a few members of that community , by an out of touch , so-called leadership
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:47 pm Post Subject:
We find out via TVNZ a couple of nights ago that John Key was able to travel to Urewera right near the alleged terror training camps and even had a meeting with the countrys #1 Terrorist Tame Iti without a single Police Officer for protection last August.
Today this story comes out.
November 17, 2007
The anti-terror raids of October 15 resulted in the seizure of only four weapons and 230 rounds of ammunition that have led to charges.
The early-morning raids involved more than 300 officers.
The police have not said what they seized in the property searches in
Auckland, Waikato, the Bay of Plenty, Wellington and Christchurch using warrants alleging crimes under the Terrorism Suppression Act and have declined a request to do so.
But of 16 people charged with firearms offences, items seized on October 15 are the basis of charges against only two - Tame Iti, and a man who has name suppression.
The charges Iti faces include illegal possession on that date of three rifles - a Ruger, a Siga and a Machtech - while the other man is charged in regard to a Ruger rifle and 100 rounds of .22 calibre bullets and 130 rounds of .303 calibre ammunition.
The police said it was inappropriate to comment about matters before the court.
Many of the 16 are charged jointly with up to 12 others and the dates the offences are alleged to have occurred relate to dates of the alleged training camps in the Ureweras. The earliest charges relate to November 2006.
The Crown predominantly appears to rely on evidence from surveillance of the camps and interception of conversations. While the latter would be admissible for charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act, it is unlikely to be for firearms charges.
Meanwhile, the Solicitor-General says he has no plans to provide a detailed assessment of flaws he identified in the Terrorism Suppression Act, which he said was "almost impossible to apply in a coherent manner".
His criticism prompted the Government to refer the matter to the Law Commission.
An Auckland University specialist in criminal procedure, Associate Professor Scott Optican, said Dr Collins' input would be invaluable to the commission because he had assessed the evidence and the terrorism law.
"How can the Law Commission comment on the sufficiency of a law unless they know exactly what are the problems alleged with it with respect to the facts of this case," said Professor Optican, a former prosecutor.
"I haven't been convinced enough to know whether there really is a problem in the law or [whether] the case just failed for lack of proof.
"You have to make a rational argument as to what is wrong with the law and why you want it to get at behaviour that it doesn't get at. Just to say the law is rubbish isn't enough; you have to be very specific in light of the facts of the case."
A spokeswoman for Dr Collins said he was not doing a report on the matter and had not been asked to.
But it was usual for the commission in the course of reviews of legislation to consult all agencies with an interest in the particular legislation.
