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if you want to see some aggressive chem spraying , check out northeast victoria for this morning , they are going ballistic , after a two week lay-off. i've taken photos , which i'll post when i get the skills . there are multiple big jets in "holding patterns" , spraying evenly spaced lines , some at relatively low altitude , and many smaller domestic jets going through the same sky , with the normal contrail dissipating after ten plane-lengths .
Here is the contrail analysis chart based on the 10am 21 July 2007 (local time) atmospheric sounding from Melbourne Airport.
The title says "midday", but it is based on 0000 UTC 21 July 2007 which is midday NZ time. In the gallery the description says, when it should say 10am. Time zones; who can figure them.
The analysis shows that there is a contrail layer between F296 and F435 which contains the cruise altitudes for jet aircraft. It also shows that any contrails formed would be persistent, and would drift in the wind off the original flight route. Contrails would form in that layer because the ambient air temperature there is less than the Critical Contrail Temperature. They would be persistent because the RH is high enough (between F233 and F395 - the black bar on the right) that vapour pressure is greater than the saturation vapour pressure over ice (cyan line). That is, the thin red line (vapour pressure) is between the thin blue one and the cyan one. Once formed, contrail clouds would continue to grow and stretch; the ice particles slowly falling into the lighter wind speeds below.
The representative "contrail mixing line" for F360 cuts deeply into the condensation zone to the left of the thin blue line (representing the saturation vapour pressure over water), so even if there was not so much moisture, a contrail would not dissipate immediately as the exhaust plume mixes with the environment. (On this mixing line, the engine is way up and to the right, and the environment is at the head of the arrow, at the lower left.) The contrail lasts from when that line first crosses to the left of the saturation vapour pressure line (thin blue) until is crosses to the right of the saturation vapour pressure over ice line (cyan), that is, if it ever does.
The Wagga Wagga chart based on sounding data at the same time can be viewed here. (The caption in the gallery is incorrect, so ignore it; my bad.)
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/photogallery/displayimage.php?pid=1563&fullsize=1
The contrail layer there is between F318 and F415 and also includes the cruise altitudes for jet aircraft.
Over Wagga Wagga there would be contrails, but because the RH is lower in most of the layer they would not be persistent and spreading. However, there is a thin layer between F369 and F388 where they would.
As at Melbourne, the representative "contrail mixing line" for F360 at Wagga Wagga cuts deeply into the condensation zone, and contrails would not dissipate immediately.
Between stations in northeast Victoria, where steve clougher made his observation, contrail conditions would have been somewhere intermediate between those at the two stations. The upper moisture (RH) distribution would be slightly different, so steve was able to report the presence of a variety of contrail behaviour. The apparently "spraying evenly spaced lines" is due to the 40 to 60 knots of wind blowing from the southwest, somewhat across the Melbourne-Sydney flight route and possibly others.
I am very pleased to have been able to demonstrate the use and features of this chart for this case. Thank you to steve clougher for bringing the date and location to my attention. I will be intrested to have a look at the photos from the day.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:19 am Post Subject:
You're easily pleased, Hector .
The cruising altitude for domestic flights is considerably lower than the bottom line in the chart , so in theory , i should not have seen any persistent contrails , or CHEMTRAILS
we live 200 nautical miles from Melbourne , and about 100 from Wagga, in montane country , which is significantly different from both of them , in terms of humidity and thermal currents . it would be stretching things to extrapolate our conditions as midway between them .
did you have a look at the satellite images?
how does the chart , which is admittedly impressive, explain my observation that some jets emanated thick ,persistent CHEMTRAILS , and others , within 30 seconds , at similar altitude , emanated only the normal contrail, of about 10 plane-lengths , which quickly dissipated , to nothing?
one jet , leaving a thick , persistent trail , flew so low that it subtended across maybe a fifth of the viewing screen on my camera . in time i will analyse the photo , after calibrating the angle subtended across the screen against a known angle .
assuming those yellow arrows are directional vectors , as imposed on a compass rose ? ? then the wind direction , according to your estimate of cruising altitude , is precisely along the flight vector , not even "somewhat" across it
the evenly spaced lines are a consistent signature of CHEMTRAILS
when observed , they are so often spaced so evenly , as to be statistically in the realm of the famous Improbability Drive . you may not realise , but this air corridor is very busy . i haven't timed the transit of planes , nor do i intend to do so to satisfy the intellectual demands of pedants , but i can look up any time of day and half the night , and see one to four aircraft , more often than none . your explanation does not begin to explain what i see .
one of the salient features consistently ignored by you , is the problem of the vast difference between trails laid in the same air at very nearly the same time . as i have stated three or four times , this observation can't be explained by the sort of argument you have put forward , but can be explained quite well , by the theory that a covert spraying operation is in place .
How do you explain the fact that NO CHEMTRAILS were observed during the two weeks prior to the 20th? ordinary contrails , yes , plenty . how does your precious chart explain that? there was some very cold weather during that time , does that help?
once again , Hector , you have avoided the hard questions , by ignoring them. thank you for allowing me to reiterate several of them for the third or fourth time
you have my sympathy on the difficulties of coping with timezones . i think there must be some really impressive and colourful charts , somewhere , that can help
steve
________________________________________
the mills of the gods grind slow , but exceeding fine
The cruising altitude for domestic flights is considerably lower than the bottom line in the chart ,...
So, what is the cruising altitude for domestic jet aircraft flights?
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... so in theory , i should not have seen any persistent contrails , or CHEMTRAILS
What are you saying here? That contrails and CHEMTRAILS exclusively occur in the same atmospheric conditions? Could CHEMTRAILS be same as, identical to, and indistinguishable from contrails? I know you don't mean that; the whole CHEMTRAIL issue would vanish. You do have to be careful what you write; there are some pedants out there, and they don't regard the epithet a dyslogistic term.
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we live 200 nautical miles from Melbourne , and about 100 from Wagga, in montane country , which is significantly different from both of them , in terms of humidity and thermal currents . it would be stretching things to extrapolate our conditions as midway between them .
I said that the conditions would be intermediate between them - I gave no proportion. What makes you say that the humidity would be significantly different from both of them. And it would be an interpolation, not an extrapolation if Albury-Wodonga is between Melbourne and Wagga Wagga.
... some jets emanated thick ,persistent CHEMTRAILS , and others , within 30 seconds , at similar altitude , emanated only the normal contrail, ...
How do you know they were at similar altitude? There is no sounding for Albury so we don't know exactly what the RH distribution with height was. Cautions and caveats.
Some of the evenly spaced lines may have been wave structure in the wind flow shown up ny natural cirrus. You can see some of that in those high resolution images. Be careful to accurately identify what you are looking at.
"fifth of the viewing screen on my camera" - we await your calibrations before replying about that.
The orange arrows point to the direction the wind is blowing towards. The direct line course Sydney to Melbourne 233 deg True. The wind direction between a bit above 5000m and 14000m is somewhat more westerly than that.
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one of the salient features consistently ignored by you , is the problem of the vast difference between trails laid in the same air at very nearly the same time . as i have stated three or four times , this observation can't be explained by the sort of argument you have put forward , but can be explained quite well , by the theory that a covert spraying operation is in place .
Well, of course it would; though it's not all that covert, is it? (Why don't they do it at night or in overcast conditions when no one would see or be aware of it?)
We don't have a sounding in your area. We don't know the aircraft type. We don't know what the engine type is - the chart is for low bypass engines. We don't know what the altitude of these planes. More data needed...
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How do you explain the fact that NO CHEMTRAILS were observed during the two weeks prior to the 20th? ordinary contrails , yes , plenty . how does your precious chart explain that? there was some very cold weather during that time , does that help?
Give a date, any date. I'll put up the precious chart. Cold weather (on the ground) has nothing to do with it... as I have said 3 or 4 times before. It is no help whatsoever.
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once again , Hector , you have avoided the hard questions , by ignoring them. thank you for allowing me to reiterate several of them for the third or fourth time
I have attempted to answer them here, and elsewhere. You are very welcome; that's what forums are for.
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i think there must be some really impressive and colourful charts , somewhere , that can help
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:32 am Post Subject:
in what direction does striated natural cirrus form , relative to the wind direction? across it , last time i looked , but if you examine the image in the line a little to the east of Melbourne , you can see striated "cirrus " in lines following the wind direction .
also , in the afternoon picture , just above the queensland border , pretty close to the Perth-Brisbane flightpath , there's a massive single line of cloud , or CHEM , possibly a HUGE CHEMTRAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hope you're being paid in proportion to your value! . i can't believe you don't know the cruising altitude of domestic jets on the Melbourne-Sydney run . i thought everybody knew that
interpolate , of course , thank you .thank you thank you
i see some aeroplanes at similar altitudes , and others at differing altitudes . i use my eyes to make these observations . it's a good trick, you should try it.
the evenly spaced lines are observed to have originated from the back end of aeroplanes . apart from this inconvenience , your theory of wave structures in the wind flow is great . i see that type of cloud , too, i know what they look like , and i am always glad to see them and to know that they are not CHEMTRAILS , raining down aluminium oxide , barium stearate , et al. ,
thank you for your wise injunction to "be careful to accurately identify" what i am looking at . just quietly , old chap , you are aware that you're splitting your infinitives , rather?
i feel i must warn you not to be too accurate , as in your given bearing of 233 for Sydney-Melbourne, (you didn't mention whether that's a great circle course, either), but you can get tumbled , when you get too accurate. take the case of Martin Bryant . google up his name , Hector , as well as "nexus" , and start to get a handle on who and what you're working for , with this snow job of yours.
as to your comments about the covert nature of the CHEM spraying , i'm glad you asked , (though it proves once again that you have not paid attention to anything different from the paradigm that pays the bills) and i'll research the subject thoroughly , before posting
Hector was a trojan prince , wasn't he? is this the "royal we" we're getting from you , or are you referring to your team?
steve
......the princes kept the view................and their foot-servants too........
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:04 am Post Subject:
Now, someone was saying that there are a lot of awake and aware people in New Zealand maybe someone can figure out what is puzzling me
when aeroplanes fly their normal vectors , we see them , but we never hear them , not the jets , we hear the turboprops , at lower altitude .
periodically , we get jets , typically white jets , flying north to south , never south to north as far as i know , and they are really loud .
i have seen these south-vector jets laying down massive chem , but lately there have been many of these noisy south-vector jets, whereas up till now you could count on two hands the number we have had in thirty months , and today , we have seen three, and no chemtrails ????
to my knowledge , there is no regular flightpath over us in a southerly vector .
Tasmania is down there , but all connections to Tas go wide of here .
The only thing that comes to mind with the noise of the engines (most commercial airliners jet engines are very quiet, or at least quiet in comparison to older aircraft like 727 etc) is that they could be military.
Maybe even an air force jet like F18 or F111. Not sure of the Aust air force F18 colour scheme but low visibility grey wouldn’t be too far off.
I have heard these beasts and they are VERY LOUD, particularly when at high speed (afterburner kicks in etc).
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:24 pm Post Subject:
correct , info4 , all those possibilities you mention .
the jets i heard at 2am are probably cargo planes , they were on the normal Sydney - Melbourne lines (both directions ) , and it's possible that i just never took any notice before .
the north-south vector is another matter . the line is pretty well headed towards Hobart , and may be also heading for a military airbase on the mainland . there are a few army bases in Victoria , one of them is nearly south of us .
if it's an Antarctic associated mission , it's quite a big one , which is why i thought it's worth drawing attention. it's not always fighter planes , though once or twice i have thought it may be , with that special rolling , distant sound they make .
the strange thing , is that many normal-looking jets , on normal vectors , are making a lot more noise , also . we can usually sit outside , and watch them pass , and not hear a whisper . lately , the noise even gets into the house , which is mudbrick , with an insulated roof , and damn near soundproof .
this has just started happening in the last few days . it's a big change . could there be some harmonic or resonant factor involved ? there have been absolutely no chemtrails or even contrails , in the past two days , either .
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:53 pm Post Subject:
update
today we saw two planes , flying a path a couple of kilometres to the west of the usual north-east (bound) lane . this put them directly over our house , and getting pretty close to the south-west lane , as it used to be , the last few years . these two were qantas jets . no chem , only one contrail observed , the past two days . some different things are happening
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:17 pm Post Subject:
massive chem day today the sky was full of chemtrails and haze by dawn , and they have continued all morning there are some vectors i've never seen before , at slight angles to the commercial lanes
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:53 pm Post Subject:
another quite strange thing , for the past week the weather radars have had the gain control turned up , showing rain showers that don't exist , and exaggerating those that do , not just our local one , but some others too , suggesting they are under instructiions to adjust their sets in a misleading way
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:09 pm Post Subject:
no chemtrails at all today
the front which promised to deliver rain , and was preceded by the most concentrated spray campaign i've ever seen , produced exactly nothing , although the radar said it did have rain
