Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:07 pm Post Subject: Some thoughts on Raising Public Awareness
The chemtrail issue is a complex one. It's riddled with misinformation, disinformation, fake science, wild theories, chemtrail wackos - you name it, it's out there. To bring an issue like this to public attention, is like navigating a small boat through dangerous waters.
Here are some thoughts on this:
Check your Spelling and Grammar
Presenting your thoughts to officialdom, in particular, will be a great deal more effective if the document you submit is well thought out, well reasoned and coherent and you have taken the time to see that what you have written is grammatically correct and easy to read...
Be Properly Informed
You have to know your stuff. There is research. And there is research. The more research you do sometimes, the more research you need to do. The more questions arise. Without proper research and proper rational observations and rational questions, you can do a lot of damage to your own credibility. And you pretty much get one chance at it, before becoming a spent force for the cause.
Know what NOT to do
You have to know the pitfalls. In the course of our research we also look at how other 'chemtrail sites' are handling the subject. Some of them do it well. Many of them fall into the trap of creating a 'chemtrail religion', making wild assumptions, presenting hysterical or poorly researched claims etc. Very often these sites sacrifice the truth in the process of trying to convince. The ends do not justify the means, under any circumstances.
If we do not acknowledge the things that don't fit, and in particular, that don't fit the chemtrail theory, then we are just as guilty as anyone else out there of spreading misinformation.
The media's favourite way of ridiculing the chemtrail issue (if they dare even mention it), is to lump it into with UFOs and aliens. Now, there is a definite evidence of anomalous objects showing up in numerous photographs of chemtrail activity, let alone in other circumstances. Our Photo Gallery documents some of these. However, UFOs are not synonymous with aliens. UFOs or UAPs can and have been observed and can be done so from a point of objectivity. The whole concept of aliens is something else again. (More on this later in another thread). Notice the media favouring terms like UFO 'believer'. They are referring to UFO religion. Religion is seen as the enemy of science. So if you call someone a UFO believer, you immediately place them in the category of the UFO zealot - not a critical observer. This a subtle but well used technique. Unfortunately, those who become interested in the chemtrail phenomenon often do succumb to zealotry and thus resign themselves to complete impotence in terms of being able to get anything done to draw serious attention to the issue.
Be Relevant
You have to be able to look at the phenomenon in a local and relevant context. We have said this before, but we'll say it again. Uncensored Magazine has brought attention to the phenomenon, but they bring almost no local relevance to it at all, therefore, effectively presenting the US based body of their material as something that few New Zealanders could even relate to. This is where you need to keep your cool and use good judgement.
New Zealand skies are not littered with full-on checkerboard chemtrail activity from dawn till dusk. Yes, some specific areas around the country do seem to experience a more intensive kind of activity, however, many people in New Zealand will never have seen a contrail, let alone the kinds of images presented by international web sites. Because of this, in our opinion, it calls for a different kind of approach. If you start distributing posters showing vast grid-like patterns (there are some downloadable ones around) appealing for chemtrails to stop, you risk confusing, alienating and ultimately turning the average person off any kind of interest in the subject.
Be Scrupulous and be Honest
You have to be scrupulous in your observations and with any analysis that follows your observations. Many Aucklanders will have noticed huge single persistent contrails over Auckland skies in the recent year. These tend to be trailing normal commercial jet airliners. Quite different from some of the far more anomalous types of operation we ourselves have observed in the other parts of the country and those observed by some of our contributors. Yes, we never used to see these contrails quite like this in our part of NZ before. And yes, in some cases they might seem to defy the scientific models about contrail formation. Quite possibly, something has changed within aircraft fuel. However, it is entirely inappropriate to claim that these contrails are riddled with poisonous chemicals.
It is probably a good time to look at some of the conversation happening over at Uncensored, because we suspect it is part of why they got such a bollocking last night on Eating Media Lunch. At the risk of offending, we will quote some excerpts from their threads:
An WhaddaYaKnow on Uncensored Magazine wrote:
i just sent this to greenpeace NZ
why dont ya’ll write them a letter too.
Maybe they aint sayin anything because mainstream NZ might actually listen to them? Sheet anythings possible now eh? it seems they got too much feelgood factor to be of any use to the planet?
POISONOUS VAPOUR
hi, was just wondering why you guys haven’t mentioned the chemical trails that were in auckland skys on wed 18th? Big Planes high up squirting white cloudy UNIDENTIFIED substences would be a major greenpeace issue i would have thought???...
We're sorry if anyone we quote is a poster on this forum, however, referring to the occurrences of persistent contrails over Auckland recently as "poisonous vapour" and "chemical trails" is not going to get Greenpeace excited.
Other posters make statements such as: "Our govt. has been lied to about it like all the others, told that it is a drastic and necessary global warming reduction measure, designed to reflect 1-2% of the suns rays to reduce gloabl warming, this is a lie, its all about population reduction...Human pop has exploded from 2 billion at start of 1900s to now over 6 billion after 2000. We are been culled!!!"
Absolute and unsubstantiated statements, no matter how well meaning those making the statements, can surely do nothing to encourage the average person to give the subject serious thought.
Nor is New Zealand's Green Party going to take it seriously. They already know about the issue, having had many letters on the subject. With their recent poor showing in the election, being frozen out of government, the set back of losing their co-leader and the prospect of their former spokesman on cannabis law reform possibly being the only contender for the co-leadership, we imagine that going to the public about chemtrails, armed with a bunch of hysterical letters making wild assumptions isn't high on the agenda.
Here's a case in point. Responses from Sue Kedgley...
Uncensored Magazine thread wrote:
Sue Kedgley wrote:
Jason, I have had various information on this forwarded to me, but have not seen any supporting evidence for New Zealand. Cheers Sue K
Sue Kedgley wrote:
Jason, the problem we have is that we have people coming to us with hundreds of issues every week, and we cannot be effective unless we concentrate our energies on key areas. The whole party has agreed to our priorities –eg peak oil, renewable energy, childrens food, etc etc, and these are the areas we have to focus on.
Also, MP’s can seldom be effective in bringing about change on an issue unless there is strong support outside through ngos. So for example I work closely with animal welfare/rights groups and others in my areas.
I therefore suggest you try and get traction with the media or other organisations etc before i investigate the issue further. I doubt that anyone in Parliament would take the issue seriously and so we are unlikely to get any traction on it anyway.
Sorry about that,
Sue Kedgley
We're not knocking anyone who is prepared to get out there and do something on the issue. However, we have considered long and hard how to grow awareness of the issue and we have a slightly different way of doing things.
Coming from a marketing background, we tend to look at this in terms of a marketing exercise. We're not talking about the exploitation of the chemtrail subject in order to make money from it (which is indeed occurring out there). We are talking about regarding raising public awareness of the chemtrail issue as a marketing challenge. How do you bring the concept to people in a way in which they might respond?
Part of that approach led to the formation of this site. Initially launched before we were really ready to do so, installing the Forums and Gallery in particular, has allowed us to gather more information about what's happening around the country and to factor this into our research and into the articles we are preparing. A very important part of our approach is to reach a more 'mainstream' audience. In an effort to do that, we have developed a vision for the site that extends beyond the limited subject of chemtrails. There is considerable general interest in genuine mysteries and a vast untapped resource of eye witness stories and accounts of New Zealand mysteries. Our sample item on Big Black Cats has been received very well and enjoys a very high hit rate. Similarly, our photo essay on the Kaimanawa Wall is one of the most frequently visited parts of the site at this time.
Attracting a wider audience with a keenness for a broad range of interests means that we can also introduce our visitors to more challenging and thought provoking subjects, concepts and ideas, chemtrails being just one of them.
Because we are funding the project from our own earnings and not through selling advertising, merchandise and articles, and because we effectively manage the site 'in our spare time', it can take a little longer to get things done. While we have developed, designed and built the sites ourselves, using our own photographs and graphics, we now require some programming expertise to link our back-end content management system to our front end design. In the new year we anticipate being able to put some capital into doing this, which will allow us to feature regularly updated news, live opinion polls, more articles and other content and functionality, such as searchability etc. We look forward to doing this as soon as we can.
It is worth noting that the DVD we are currently distributing on behalf of Clifford Carnicom is sold at cost ($10) as a public service. We produce the DVDs, provide quality packaging, print the CD labelling and dustjackets ourselves. No one is making money out of it. Our shop, currently under development, will simply better allow us to provide access to such materials with secure payment options and has not been founded on exploitation of the chemtrail subject or the requirement to make a living out of the site.
It may not always seem to be the most exciting way to go about it, but it is very apparent that much more of a groundswell of interest and concern is required before any public confrontation of the subject will realistically be possible. For this, patience is required.
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:31 pm Post Subject:
Thats a good grounding read.
Extremism can do more harm than good.
Radicals generate negative reactions usually as well.
The chemtrail issue is exactly as you have stated it. Very hard to rationally explain, and riddled with disinformation.
We just have to keep photographing the phenomena, and post detailed observations.
And carefully put it into the publics awareness.
Not an easy road, and long
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:18 pm Post Subject: extremism
i understand an avoidance of extremism in a lot of cases, but to me this is one the most important fights we will ever face, and me personally am gonna take it head on, im not going to try and convince the unconvincible, ive been doing that far too long. and coming off second best. a girl at my work saw that huge trail that day in auckland and she thought it was neat?
I showed her some pictures and told her a bit , (not over eagerly and nut-like).i said there are different theories about why , whether mod etc..... but thwhy wont they tell us? so she listened, agreed that it was definitely strange and then shrugged her shoulders and started on about some top of the pops bollocks. Wasnt interested in the slightest. some people listen, and are interested, then like the light went off, no longer interested. to me, this is my life, my family, my friends. I, like many others had a mucussy cough which ive still got little of now, it started right after that big trail and subsequent 3 days of overcast with very little rain. to me, and unless someone can prove otherwise. it appears we are being mildly poisoned. The TV and papers wont touch it with a rock. We all know That! newsboy and his so called expose... F*U*C*K
that was disheartening. And then the moth spray in west auckland. The figures came out about child asthma rates during that low level bug spraying which showed a 40% increase in hostpital admissions for children with asthma or enexplained breathing problems. The number dropped when the spraying stopped. THE HERALD buried these astounding results 4 pages in under the headline "Spray link still not proven" and then had a "Mr." not even a "Dr"! a Mr. explained that these finding were still not proof.
they dont want to know.
we can build chembusters easily and cheaply. and combat this freely because after all. orgone energy doesn't even exist according to most governments.
my point is that they want this type of thing milled over and worried about and they want us to think that there's nothing we can do. if anyone has seen a chembuster work, then they'll back me up here. we can't fight this thing in the media. it's impossible.
But we certainly can fight it.
so here goes - push submit - -- my political hat is now in the ring
if anyones interested in chembusters or orgonite - Google it.
You know there has to be a line between CRAZY and NOT-CRAZY... I accept that 911 was a controlled demolition because there is a wealth of evidence, but with the contrail issue the only proof you have that these are anything unnusual is a couple bogus scientific tests performed on contrail fall-out .. A lot of you seem to forget that CONTRAILS are real and perfectly legitimate - Or atleast - you neglect to mention the fact when you are spreading your propoganda and disinformation -- The exact thing you have accused other "chemtrail nuts" of doing..
I am curious to know just how much you have read through the posts on this forum. Your quick off the mark comments suggest to me that you haven't read much into the subject of contrails and persistent trails so far...
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:27 pm Post Subject: questions just need to be raised
I dont think you have to worry about people getting on there soap box and ranting...thats how things change
Remember the 100th Monkey rule.....
the reason the whole issue gets blown off is because it is to far from the story we get told everyday........
People will entertain the idea of 9/11 because it fits in to a degree with accepted 'conspircy' eg. JFK, big business its really just to much of a stretch.......my wife thought i was as mad as a meat axe when i first said 'hey you ever noticed those' but now that shes aware (really aware) she sees them all the time and so do I...... I have read the theories and who knows they could be right....they may not be...but for sure its not normal!
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:18 pm Post Subject:
satanzhand wrote:
I dont think you have to worry about people getting on there soap box and ranting...thats how things change
I disagree. It is understandable that people feel strongly about these issues. However, what tends to happen is that they end up ranting about everything that concerns them and lose their power to effectively communicate about really serious issues.... I believe that in order for anger to be really effective and to retain its raw power as impetus for change, it has to be measured and it has to be used appropriately - it must retain its impact as a force of contrast. Otherwise it simply becomes part of the 'background noise'.
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:51 pm Post Subject: I agree
I agree with what you are saying, but the information has to get out and as long as it gets out the truth will be known.
Everyone is different some people will respond to big rant soap box display others a peaceful protest, some will just look for themselfves.
The thing is no one is going to care until they are ready a little like 'the matrix' movie. We can all jump up and down all we like its not going to do anything because most people like the story they are living to much to question it.
passing on information any way possible is the best way the '100th monkey theory' will carry the truth from person to person in the Collective consiousness thats what has lead most of us to this forum.
We all only have to inform only one person thats all and the rest will be history. Its alot easier to tell a trusted friend all this information and get them heading down the right path than any other means the rest is just sharing of information between people who are already listening like ourself'ves and once your a little enlightened you can look for the truth behind any information
You can't enlighten people who dont want to be enlightened, So why waste your effort.
saying that I feel enclined to stand on a street corner and hand out DVD's and hold seminars too.
Basically in marketing any coverage is good coverage. Why do you think conspircy theories dont get any coverage except when they have grown to the stage were they need to be debunked for the masses before they catch on.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:31 pm Post Subject:
Hi, and thanks , John and Melody , for accepting me onto your site . this is my first time as a contributor to any forum. i'm a good speller , and promise to try and temper my predilection for frenzied and unscientific extrapolation . thanks especially for those awesome pics of clouds over farewell spit.....they are reminiscent of the famous "taniwha" rock art , some of which have appeared on postage stamps . they also strikingly resemble some of my own wood sculpture. you get TWO choccy fish , at least . if you google my name you get a pic of the sculpture , as well .
on a serious note , the point Satanzhand made is worth elaborating , and it bears on the discussion about how we address the issues of acceptability in scientific circles , and marketability in general . the point is the enormous credibility gap , for everyone new to the concepts implicit in chemtrails , 911 and other large scale operations of the powerbrokers , which to a normal person , are just too monstrous to be believable . for me , there is a degree of urgency ...... i think the postings about "culling" etc. , while clearly sensational and alarmist , are in a way , in fair proportion to the monumental criminality we have seen displayed by those with the money. someone has to cry "stinking fish" , even though the "fish" may be "over the horizon" .
i like the little pithy signature quotes you all have .
"if reprobates knew the advantages of righteousness , they'd be upright out of villainy"
