Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Flying south over Feilding towards Wellington. This culprit I have seen laying lines here and over the coast (Himitangi/Tangimoana area) on many occasions.
Not quite enough zoom in my camera to catch the jet in detail unfortunately. I am not a good judge of height with regard to the aircraft but it might be 10000+ feet.
This culprit I have seen laying lines here and over the coast (Himitangi/Tangimoana area) on many occasions.
Are you sure this is the same one. Don't QANTAS and Air New Zealand have several aircraft like this (B737 or A320)? All B737s (or A320s) look the same until you are close enough to read the tail number; ZK-NGK, ZK-OJC, etc, or recognise some other distinguishing feature.
Anyway, the trail is jet engine condensation. Last Sunday was a contrail day in central New Zealand. Jets on any inter major city route over the South Taranaki Bight and costal Manawatu are at an altitude high enough to be in the contrail layer that day which was, at Paraparaumu, 30000 feet and above (to 50900 feet). I'm fairly certain I spotted this one several minutes later that day as it few over Wellington on its way to Christchurch.
I'm sorry but the statement that this is a "chemjet" grates on this one. To me it looks like a contrail forming further back from the engines on the wings - as they do. If it was spraying, wouldn't the trail be closer to the engine? Also it's likely to be on one standard flight paths ....
One thing ive noticed about regular contrails is that they seem to form one half to a full plane length behind the aircraft leaving them. in deano's pic's they are forming directly off the tail. If a spray op was under way, it would make sense to place the dispensers on the tail section of a twin engined aircraft.
The aircraft in the picture was producing a contrail at the time as far as I could tell. The contrail disappeared after half minute or so. The reason I snapped it is because I have seen it involved in spraying activity on many occasions.
If it was spraying, wouldn't the trail be closer to the engine?
Maybe if it were spraying they could have dispensers not on the wings, but on the tail. The KC-10 tanker looks alot like a 737 or A320 from underneath, we all need to invest in some good spotting scopes methinks...
One thing ive noticed about regular contrails is that they seem to form one half to a full plane length behind the aircraft leaving them.
If you have a look at the photos on the following website you will see that there is no consistent length that a contrail starts at, either at the wings, tail or much further back. Much depends on the engine type, weather conditions and temperature.
In the following example they form at the propeller of this plane. Info4 advises me that in this example vortices are caused from the propellers and he has seen contrails form from the wings hundreds of times, not to mention flashes of condensation at the wings.
When you are a casual observor without much knowledge or experience of aircraft it's easy to assume a lot of things. The other problem is trying to work these things out from the ground, or at distance. I observed a long ascending narrow cloud last week from one side of Auckland that you could say was a contrail. Once I got to the other side of the bridge the cloud was much larger and not at all like what I had initially seen. You could say, well it might have been a contrail the spread but it was too dense and "cloud like" to really be like the dissippating trails I've seen before.
Anyone got one of those large expensive camera lenses to get a really good close up shot? And then, you might say, what about those mega contrails on airliners.net? Well, I don't know and info4 can't give me a definitive answer either except that some of those planes are old and the engines not as cleaner burning as the modern planes therefore causing larger contrails..... and so it goes on.
First, the size of objects in photos can be estimated using some simple methods from photogrammetry. Apart from enlarging the original image, 3 things determine the image size of an object on film or the CCD. They are the size of the object, how far away it is and the focal length of the lens. You can calculate all that, but you don't have to if you have done a few calibration photos of objects of a known size at a known distance and at a range of zooms (focal lengths).
For example, if the image (at a certain focal length) of the wingspan of a plane that you estimate is 10 kilometres away (directly overhead?) has a length of 1.8 times of the length of the image of a 10 metre high power pole 5 kilometres away (at the same focal length), then you can calculate that the wingspan is 10 metres times 2.0 (the relative distance) times 1.8 (the relative image size) equals 36 metres. The only thing you have to be careful about is your calibration and estimating the distance of the object.
Using this method it should be possible to differentiate a A320 from the slightly bigger B737, and the much bigger KC-10.
Second, be careful of confusing jet exhaust condensation with edge vortex condensation; they are not the same thing.
Jet exhaust (and breath on a cold day, car exhaust, kettle steam) condensation is the result of mixing two moist air samples, both of whose temperature is above its dew point, but after mixing the temperature of the mixture is below its dew point. The result is that water vapour in the mixture condenses and becomes visible. With further mixing with sufficient air, the dew point rises above the temperature and the condensate evaporates. All this takes place at the same pressure.
In an edge vortex (arising because of the "lift" being generated by the propellor, wing tip, flap edge, etc, which in turn is there because of an induced circulation - hence the vortex) air is spinning extremely fast, and there is a reduction in pressure inside the vortex. According to Boyle's Law, when you reduce the pressure of a mass of air the temperature decreases. If the pressure in the vortex is low enough to lower the temperatre to below the dew point, the water vapour in the chilled air will condense, and avaporate again when the spinning slows as the vortex dissipates (and the pressure rises, bringing the temperature up again). The same thing can happen on the upper surface of a wing. Here the pressure is low, especially at high angles of attack (in the landing and take-off phases of a flight). Sometimes the condensation can sort of blink; there, not there, there, not, and so on. This is because of variations in RH.
So the condensation occurs for two quite different reasons; the first (jet exhaust condensation) because the relationship between saturation temperature and humidity content is a curved line, and the (second vortex condensation) because if you cool moist air enough, the water vapour will condense. The other thing is that one occurs at constant pressure, and the other does not.
Cheers for the enlightnment Info4 (who?), Youv'e spurned me on to greater heights. I know little about aircraft types and proportions but its good to know there are info-rmative people out there like yourself , who will help educate junior and less well versed members on the basics. And with that said id like to thank Hector for the camera calibration tip's. Anyways, here are some basic sillouettes / dimensions and pic's of some common and not so common aircraft traversing our skies.
Let's start with a fairly common beastie the Boeing 737....
Length - 138ft, wingspan - 117ft
Well, hope that HELPS a bit ... now that i know a KC-10 has a ' dirty great 3rd engine in the tail' it should make identifying it 14Km away a breeze..... See how easiy it is to spot it on the sillouette? yeah right. A 20-40 foot length diff would stick out like the proverbial DB's at 36.000ft wouldnt it :lol: . Theyve all got 2 engines as well. Bugger. Lifes becoming difficult. What we need are dedicated people who have extensive aircraft spotting experience to INFO-rm us. Cripes, Imagine if someone could provide forum updates every friday of the weekends flight schedules over say... the capital city!! ... yeah! then Hector could post his contrail anlysis while a few other nosey parkers could watch the sky... cool, networking. Hmmmmmm Now only if I knew someone with flight explorer who had the motivation and concern to post this INFO prior to the weekends....
My post about the KC-10 and the 3rd engine was mainly in reference to the photo above.
You made reference to,
Quote:
Maybe if it were spraying they could have dispensers not on the wings, but on the tail. The KC-10 tanker looks a lot like a 737 or A320 from underneath
To me its a standard contrail (but I guess who knows) so for it to be a KC-10 it would of needed to have a 3rd contrail hence my comment.
I agree you can't tell with something at +30,000 ft but you can be more clearer on your "guess" with some of the identification processes I alluded to.
I guess I have my doubts about calling something a "spraying op" and statements like "they must have dispensers on the tail section" a little hard to accept.
Now I am not dumb enough to think that everything that is happening up there is above board- in fact far from it.
I have worked in the aircraft industry for more than 20 years here in NZ and have worked on many different aircraft types from the RNZAF and Air NZ plus other types for overseas operators, and haven't seen anything that might be something connected to a spraying function.
Now I will also state that I haven't the ability to look closely anymore but (until recently) I made sure when ever an aircraft (particularly one from overseas) was in the hangar, I would go for a walk around looking for anything that shouldn't be there.
When I was employed as an aircraft engineer I personally worked on every part/area of all aircraft operated by Air NZ (International Fleet) as well as the 737's from the National fleet (but never the A320 albeit I have walked around and inside them many times).
I have wondered for many years about what is it that is happening and why there is so much more contrails produced by aircraft these days than the past and I don't really know.
I do feel like I would like to have an open mind about it but will concede that from time to time I find that these areas are a bit touchy and maybe that I come across as trying to defend my illusions.
But to say that these aircraft within NZ are spraying makes me want to say,
How-
Where from-
For what reason-
What is the delivery system-
I still know many people in the industry and I have know them for decades.
I find them to be reliable, honest, hard working and intelligent people from all areas of life and if any Air NZ Jet aircraft had spraying equipment installed on them they would know, its their job.
When an aircraft comes in for service there are visual inspections carried out over many different areas of the aircraft inside and outside and over a period of time all areas of the aircraft will have been inspected so I don't see how it can be so.
When it comes to observations I guess I have been watching aircraft since I was a teenager and I guess I have seen many different types from all around the world. I feel this does give me some validity in this area with out implying I am an expert. I guess I take for granted the skills as it is something that has come with experience and it helps to make a better informed "guess" if I can call it that.
Things like tail position, engine position relative to fuselage and tail plane, angle of the wing relative to the fuselage, engine number and also how it is positioned on the wing. Also the proportions of these items, the thickness of the fuselage (and many more observations) can help in making a call on what is the aircraft type.
As you are probably aware I helped in the formation of the Myst NZ Flight Vector Map (mainly in establishing what the many vectors are) and as part of this project (I think it was John) stumbled on to Flight Explorer.
This proved to be a very useful tool in helping to confirm many flight paths of aircraft flying within NZ. I spent many hours watching and recording the flight observations on this program and I must say it is an amazing tool. We are fortunate to have this in NZ as it look like it is mainly a tool for US operates or operators with in the USA, actually here is a little marketing splerb from them
Quote:
Flight Explorer Personal Edition allows private pilots and aviation enthusiasts to track commercial and general aviation flights on IFR flight plans in the US, including Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands; Canada; New Zealand; and parts of the Atlantic and Pacific.
Note that Australia is not available
The cost varies based on what level you subscribe to
Flight Explorer Personal Edition price is USD9.95/month for 10 hours of usage.
Flight Explorer Pilot Edition price is USD15.95/month for 10 hours of usage.
Trust me 10 hours goes very fast
This program is available to anybody who has a PC, fast Internet and the time to observe, but please note it is in real time. You see what ever is happening now (- 10 minutes for safety reasons)
In order to do what you suggested it would require research into what aircraft was scheduled over your way as you say some days before and then co-ordinate with a FE user to confirm what flights they are.
Would take some work but it is do-able.
Having multiple FE users would be required though.
My suggestion would be to actually take a weekend (or at least a 24-36 hour period) where there are co-ordinated observers on the ground and FE user using both the Arrival and Departure web sites functions of the International airports in NZ.
I am willing to be involved with this if others want to as well.
Just remember that FE will only see the legitimate stuff and it is my thought that there is Aircraft flying around that could well be up to mischief and that is what FE will help with but it is only available in real time.
Look I have been thinking about this some more and I just wanted you to know that my engineers brain at times needs to try and make sense of these things and at times I catch myself thinking......... what b#$%%$@##$$#$%t
But I also know there's something not right about much of the chemtrail phenomena and one needs to keep an open mind and to look into this for ones self.
Having a forum like MYSTNZ to discuss these issues sure is helpful and I must acknowledge the work that you and your mates do down in Wellington to bring to the attention of others - all is not as it seems
Thanks Info4 for your reply.
Please forgive me for sounding abrupt and out of line, but to know that something like this (spray op's) is a possibility makes my blood boil. I, like you, sometimes think what utter B^#$%!**t this may all be as well. But I have a 'gut' feeling that something is truly 'up' (scuse the pun) with this trail buisness. I dont know what as of yet, but it bugs me. It just seems out of our reach, and the proliferation of these trails and the concern it is causing alot of well-meaning observant people bugs me too. I will let it be known that, personally, I dont trust the government to keep our (the peoples) best intentions at heart. They seem misguided and out of touch. I wont go into the why's and therefores here, anyone with an open mind and outlook can apply some critical thinking and draw their own conclusions.
Quote:
I still know many people in the industry and I have know them for decades.
I find them to be reliable, honest, hard working and intelligent people from all areas of life and if any Air NZ Jet aircraft had spraying equipment installed on them they would know, its their job
I couldnt agree with you more, someone would have seen something and spoken about it.. It just makes me wonder if fuel additives may be involved here... This hypotheses seems somewhat plausible but could prove difficult (to say the least) to verify.
We must be prosaic in our descriptions with refrence to this (trail) buisness. We must do what we can to observe and document these events without going into wild speculation (well, bettween you and me.... :roll: )
Assistance from people like you is invaluable, and to even reach the stage of offering your appraisals within the framework of your experience sets a fine example. This area of research is riddled with misnomers, rife speculation, paranoia and outright assertion.
Flight Explorer Operators, coupled with observers on the ground and those willing to gather airline schedules over a weekend (hopefully clear weather) WANTED. Apply here and express your interest in helping us with our endevours. This is serious, and kinda fun at the same time. With a few of us getting on the case at once a sense of purpose may well form. A few more friends could be made in the process too. Cheers Info4.
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Queensland
Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:12 pm Post Subject:
Congratulations to the webmasters for an excellent site. I have been observing 'chemtrails' in Australia for the past 2-3 years. I have dozens of photos - mostly over the Gold Coast, but also Toowoomba. I was in Wellington in April and spotted some massive trails running roughly parallel to the Tawa valley on the afternoon of the 15th. In fact I observed what looked like trails from about midday and later observed the spreading streaks drifting eastward over the Hutt Valley.
My theory: Chemtrails represent deliberate manipulation of the atmosphere for the purpose of reducing rainfall and creating a water shortage which in turn makes water a profitable commodity to be traded as it is in Australia. Desalination plants and privatisation of water supplies are part of the 'package'. A scarcity of water also makes food more expensive and takes it out of the control of small, private farmers. Only big, corporate farms can afford the water and hence grow the food. Otherwise it is imported, as is happening in Australia now eg most broccoli is coming from China. Water and food control is a key part of the globalisation process - the one-world police state so thoroughly documented as places like www.prisonplanet.com.
The cost of global atmospheric spraying has been estimated at two or three billion a year. The Gold Coast desalination plant is costing 1.2 billion and there are probably a dozen desal plants under construction worldwide.
My prediction: Get ready for water shortages Kiwiland - it's all part of climate change after all!
We would most certainly like to see some of your footage mate. Create an area for yourself in the photogallery and upload some shots. You'll need to keep the photos to under 1 meg. It is a bit trickier to place an image into your post but the Andersons who run this superlative website have good instructions.
In keeping with this thread, what type of aircraft have you found to be dumping chemcrud in your area?
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Queensland
Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:20 pm Post Subject:
Hi Deano:
The chemtrails look the same on both sides of the Tasman. I have yet to find a convincing scientific explanation. I saw the postings with all the fancy atmospheric data which predicts trails, but if it's harmless ice crystals, how can they possibly remain intact for hours regardless of weather conditions? You see them in northern Canada and you see the exact same thing in Queensland.
They've been in Australia for about a decade as far as I know. The effect on water supply has been devastating because the spraying always appears ahead of wet weather fronts and almost every time, the cloud bank disperses to a large degree. If you disrupt one thunderstorm front over south-east Queensland, you literally deny the areas hundreds of tonnes of water. Do that repeatedly for years and you have a serious water shortage such as we have now. I believe that's what they're working on in NZ.
Re aircraft: Chemtrails here always appear at a height at which the aircraft is barely visible - like a dot. I did spot a big one however, over Toowoomba, that looked like a four-engine tanker. It was cruising early morning.
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Queensland
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:40 pm Post Subject:
Deano: One thing I can tell you about that jet, it's not Qantas or Virgin or Freedom Air. The first 2 have red fuselages and Freedom multi-coloured. Re the contrail - I wonder whether it's fuel mixture more than an actual discharge from separate apparatus.
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Queensland
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:12 pm Post Subject:
Deano: I'll try to post some pix in the next week or so. Re Hector: Is he using the data to prove chemtrails are entirely innocent? I can predict them too, I just watch for an approaching wet front on the charts and you'll see them - almost guaranteed. You might then suppose that their appearance is related to highly saturated atmosphere ahead of the front. No, they appear in both clear and cloudy skies - and often not on flight paths. No wonder the Department of Transport and Regional Services doesn't want to talk about it despite three or four inquries by myself on behalf of the local paper.
But here's an official response from the Queensland EPA (an atmospheric specialist is writing his response to EPA spokeswoman Michelle - AND NOTE: THEY ADMIT THAT CONTRAILS CAN FORM HIGH-LEVEL CLOUD COVER):
Aircraft Condensation Trails Enquiry
Dear Michelle,
Thank you for your email of 16 May regarding the enquiry from Mr Ross Mclennan of Maroochydore.
The photographs provided are of typical aircraft condensation trails.
When moist, high temperature air from jet engines mixes with surrounding cold air and saturation occurs the resulting moisture can condense onto particles in the atmosphere, especially those present in the jet exhaust. This results in condensation trails, or contrails. This is illustrated in the following diagram. (diagram of jet engine and contrail formation) Source: Adapted from ”The Environmental Effects of Civil Aircraft in Flight Special Report”, Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution (2002)
We can see a similar effect coming from car exhausts on frosty mornings when water vapour in the hot exhaust gases condenses in the cold air.
When the air is dry the water vapour from the jet engine exhaust evaporates quickly, however when the air is very moist the contrails may persist and tend to spread. Sometimes they can spread to form cirrus cloud.
The environmental impact of contrails and cirrus clouds is still unclear. Contrails and cirrus cloud reflect some solar radiation and therefore tend to cool the earth’s surface. They also absorb some thermal radiation and reflect it both downwards, warming the surface, and upwards. Some research indicates that the warming effect may dominate however there is still considerable scientific uncertainty about the issue.
Yours sincerely
Ken Owen
Senior Environment Specialist
20 May 2006
I'm not trying to "prove prove chemtrails are entirely innocent". I havn't even referred to them as chemtrails, except perhaps implictly by posting in "Reporting Area - Chemtrails" or "General Discussion - Chemtrails". What I have tried to do is show that jet exhaust condensation is predictable and explainable in terms of the observed data from routine atmospheric measurements and the known operating characteristics of jet engines. If these are predictable, and Mel has found that they are just by careful and astute observation, then there can be no programme of "spraying", can there?
If contrails are the same in northern Canada, Queensland, New Zealand, also USA, Great Britain, Europe... well almost everywhere, including China, then surely we are looking at a natural process. That is, "natural" in the sense that it is a consequence of the peculiar physical properties of water, a product of burning octane - jet fuel ... unless there's a giant global conspiracy, but as info4 says, How- Where from- For what reason- What is the delivery system- ? ... And how plausible is the idea anyway? To very roughly paraphrase Tom Clancy, if you're going to write fiction, at least have it make sense.
In the scheme of things, contrails are inconsequential compared to other atmospheric processes like thunderstorms and rain producing fronts, even an isolated light shower. The cloud bank was always going to disperse, and the presence (or absence) of a contrail had nothing to do with it. I suppose contrails are still being seen around Queensland (and other parts of eastern Australia), so how can all the rain that's been falling there be explained? The contrails are still there; they're having no effect now. They never did.
"They admit that contrails can form high-level cloud cover." No one has denied this. It's only on the chemtrail sites that there are claims that this behaviour is not "normal" in some way. Whenever there are ice crystals, and the vapour pressure is above the saturation vapour pressure with respect to ice, the ice crystals will grow and remove water vapour. As the ice falls, wind shear spreads it out... way out. If there is condensed liquid water present (cloud droplets) these will shrink, the water evaporating into the air due to the lowering RH. This sounds a bit like the explanation for hole-punch cloud. Well, of course it does; it's the same process. We're talking about the behaviour of the 3 phases of water, after all. What do you think freezer burn is all about? It's about the ice on the walls. Defrost your freezer! Home hints on MNZ? ... I think I done this before.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying there's no mystery at all. If the properties of ice, water and vapour were such that contrails didn't form at all, the earth would be a very different place. There might not be any life forms here. Think about that for a while...
"It's life, Jim, but not as we know it."
(singing) Klingons on the starboard bow...
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:47 pm Post Subject:
Hector , when I told my 21 year old son about chemtrails he scoffed , he scorned , he was just like you , , but not nearly so polite . when he came to stay for a weekend , he changed his mind . the observables steamrolled the preconceptions. this morning , i once again observed two jets , one leaving a thick , fluffy trail all the way from horizon to horizon, the other following less than 30 seconds later , left a thick , fluffy trail for about a kilometer , then no trail at all ,for most of its traverse of the sky . it was easily determined that they were flying at almost identical altitudes , by observing them threading in and out of clouds .Any time you're over this way , you're more than welcome to stay a couple of days . if you do , and you don't change your mind , i will present you with half a dozen of Gino Corsini's best cab sav , which is truly heavenly .
not long ago , i reported that the only planes i'd seen spraying were qantas jets
UPDATE
Today the first jet had a blue tail . the second was smaller , 2 engines under mainplanes , and was grey , and did not appear to have windows.
_________________________ Steve
What I say three times , is true
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:47 pm Post Subject: mate
hector said
Quote:
unless there's a giant global conspiracy, but as info4 says, How- Where from- For what reason- What is the delivery system- ? ... And how plausible is the idea anyway? To very roughly paraphrase Tom Clancy, if you're going to write fiction, at least have it make sense.
Mate, youve been here a while, youve been through these questions before, weve taken a look at various particulate seeding technology, we know therea re patents of all kinds for spraying stuff into the air for any number of reasons, so when asking stuff like "what is the delivery system", "how plausable is the idea anyway" etc
I kinda see these as pointless questions.. firstly its no "idea", people have been spraying various chemicals out of various aircraft for various reasons for decades, its nothing new... i could go on for ages about this, u know the usual, give links to patents for high altitude spraying of barium, nano sized particles of aluminium etc, these can be used for radar jamming, or even radar mapping, to start or stop rain, to control weather, as china has recently announced it will be doing for their big sports events...
and then we have a history of governements spraying its populus with biological agents for various reasons, their is a history of this, its no theory, it is documented, and some of those communities in the usa for example have received compensation for such things in the past, should we assume for any reason that this has stopped? or that the technologies been tested are still the same as 10-20 years ago? Do we assume also that we can completely trust our government and other governments under the un umbrella for that matter.
Is war nessesary, do we trust people like bush and cheney to have our best interests at heart, or theres? We have been tricked and fooled by many of these so called "leaders"..
What if the world is REALLY been run by a bunch of egomanical tyrants who are nothing less than a group of organised white-collar criminals, a global crime syndicate that is mostly based in the petrochemical industries and military industrial complex...
These same criminals like Edward Teller who brought us the H-bomb and a need to dispose of 1000s of tons of waste fluoride which is a product of atom-bomb making, who sold us the idea that if we pumped it into our water supplies we would fix the waste problem and fix our teeth too.. hooray!
Do you really trust these people?
WHAT IF?
What if using Edward Tellers patent idea, some big brass managed to convince the UN that global warming was way worse than public knowledge and that a global spraying operation needed to be started right away, the public would never approve of it, so it would have to be covert... imagine the look of glee from ALCOA (aluminium manufactures assoc of america) when they discovered a way to fool governments into buying 1000s of tons of aluminium to spray into the atmosphere... sounds crazy?
of course it does, but take a look around you, turn on the tv for 5 minutes...
the WORLD is crazy! there is all kinds of ridiculous crazy stuff going on right now all over the world that does NOT have the best interests of the people at heart.. is that so hard to beleive?
Ok, so how about chemtrails...
there are literally tons of scientific papers and patents and reports that talk about or allude to seeding the atmosphere for various scientific endeavours, are we to assume that this is all for our benifit, or could it all be profit driven?
Isnt most industry profit driven, isnt it a dog eat dog world?
My point here is dont be so trusting of governments, they dont trust us, they spy on us and watch our every move, they fine us for any minior infrigement they can think of and there are new taxes dreamed up every year...
When you buy something from the local dairy you are paying for something thats already been taxed 7 or so times on its way to you, and as for employment tax, well thats the biggest scam ever and was dreamed up by bankers ..and um..guess what it wasnt for our benifit, although they would like us to think it is... our public servants act more like dictators every year, and why?
Because the world is run by a global orgainsed crime syndicate... no theory, yes there is plenty of conspiring going on, but hey it only takes 2 or more people to meet is secret to plan something to fool another group and you have a conspiracy, so yes the world is full of consiracies, and yes there are all kinds of conspiracy theories, but there are all kinds of genuine conspiracies ALSO..
The term "conspiracy theory" was dreamed up by the tavistock institute of human relations in london in the early 1990s, which in itself has now become a conspiracy 'theory'... ironic aye..
The tavistock insitute is like a pr company for the global crime syndicate, they seed these terms into the media network and to hollywood, and then we have movies like "conspiracy theory" and all the main networks sitcoms start using the term and the news networks also and before you know it the entire western world is using the term, and then when someone in your house comments on something that happens in politics today for example... annother person pipes up and says ..oh but thats just another conspiracy theory, etc etc
This is how the world public opinion is fine 'tuned' by media and news and the papers... these days its dont trust anyone that comes from an islamic background, @$#&!!* even if they look islamic or 'behave' in some way thats determined suspicious, then any one can be a suspected islamic terrorist
back in the day it was russia that was the enemy of the world, and the global media sold us that lie too, in fact the cold war was a consiracy (yes its true), there was no cold war at all, it was just memebrs of the golbal crime syndicate playing games with us, they have always done this..
However ..times have changed, the world is waking up to the truth, now thanks to the net and global communications most of the world in recent polls (more than 50%) of the worlds opulation belive or know 911 was a setup, inside job, cal it what u like...
Is half the world conspiracy theorists, the media in the usa are actually trying to convince us this is the case, people who belive it was an inside job can be arrested and taken for phyciatric assesment!, it even happened here in nz to a journalist whos story is in investigate magazine..
the world is crazy..
truth is stranger than fiction..
stuff is been sprayed out of plans for various reasons, its all to do with profit and population control
Ask Henry kissenger if you dont belive me, his strategy is for elimination of 80% of the world population for stability and control and he makes no secret of it..
Think about it, the bigger the world gets and the more sophisticated global communications get the harder it is to control everyone..
we are moving towards slowly but surely in baby steps but more recently in leaps and bounds to a global orwellian police state, that is the fact.. if you open your eyes and really look you can see this, yes even you hector.. you can see this
liberties are been slowly stripped, our access to high quality natural products are about to be taken away from us, survalence and control are paramount in governments all over the western world, an 'bird flu' is about to be introduced to the world as part of kissengers population strategy, it will come from the sky..
stage one is complete but was not successfull
stage one was to introduce upper respiratory stress via a whole host of new mycoplasmas and immune suppressing substances via the food chain, water suppllies and from the air-chemtrails, stage one is to weaken everyones abilities to fight infection and particularity lungs and airways,
then stage tow is to introduce a bird flu (fast acting pneumonia infection) that will deliver the killer blow.. fact is bird flu is really just another flu, and someone with an excellent immune system will be able to beat it, but how many people do you know with an excellent immune system these days...
In the early half of the last century children were expected to get several minor bugs or flus a year, these days it is common for children to be sickj on and off all year round, with monthly infections and this is not speculation, its a fact, flu's and viruses ares till just as effective as ever, even more so than in the past, why? because its profitable
You wont sell much panadol or lemsip if everyones feeling great now will you...we are sold the idea that flu's and bugs will always be around..
its bullshit, i call it the placebo effect, the placebo is the bullshit we are told every day in magazines and tv that we need drugs to feel ok and that sickness is unavoidable, yet in modern science we discover than the state of mind of a person can effect every aspect of their health and wellbeing from heart rate to stress levels in the body, melatonin production, hormonal levels, everything int he body is affected by how we feel about ourselves and what we belive about ourselves and the world.
The global crime syndicate knows this and has been telling our minds consoiusly and sub-consoiusly (excuse spelling) through media lies, lies and more lies.. how do i know this, through reading alternative media, discovering the truth for myself through cultivation of right-mind thinking, by knowing how to listen to my body and by learning to 'feel' whats right and whats not.
in fact modern science has discovered that the world we live in is like an informational hollagram of frequencies and waveforms and that thought acts within that hollogram and directly interfaces with it..
So what im saying is that I have not had a single cold, flu, virus, infection or bug of any kind in the last 6 years since ive changed the way I think, i havnt changed my diet or my exercise or way of living significantly.. I had a scoop of chips for dinner tonite, and actually i find im eating less and less all the time
i dont even drink much water, but i just dont get sick anymore, because i dont belive in it anymore...
Of course its not that simple, you cant just say to yourself..right imnot goping to get sick anymore... its something you have to cultivate, an understanding that mind really is the boss of the body, once you have fully grasped this you wont get sick any more, thats the way i see it...
So my point is what?
Im just having a general babble about life and chemtrails and the global crime syndicate...
i feel that chemtrails are not working
i also feel that a lot of what we see in wellington skies is just contrail activity, as hector has pointed out, and id have to say a few times ive realised myself after filming something..oh thats just a contrail really.. its hanging about but its not thick or dirty like others ive seen
I also feel that a lot of what we are seeing in wellington skies is genuine chemtrail activity... both exist, and i feel all this debate about conditions for contrails to form etc is a red herring, it might be a fun exercise for skeptics to ponder over, but it isnt solving anything.. those of us that are awake to the greater reality, the global crime syndicate know that they have no problem killing people for profit, chemtrails been one of those methods, introducing cancer causing viruses via vaccines is annother method, AIDS was one of those methods dreamed up by Kissenger...
The world is changing, its gona get harder for many to get sick, as their personal vibratory rate increases in frequency it will get to the point where people wont get sick any more, we will be literally lighter in body and mind, life will be easier, but unfortunatly thanks to the GCS its gona get worse for many before it gets better..
world wars are created, and pretexts for wars are created out of a need for military spending and to control population levels and to create fear (but thats another story, the spiritual element)
ps: hector that tom clancy quote was very roughly paraphraszed..
tom clancy was.. "A lifelong military enthusiast, he is best known for writing techno-thrillers, complex novels dense with hardware and detailed geo-political themes."
im sure hed think this chemtrail conspiracy a highly plausable story if u ask me
What's your interpretation of what you saw today? Two jets, more-or-less the same time and altitude (and track?), different types, one with a fairly persistent contrail and the other with a transient one. And, in the context of the weather you had today, what's the problem with it.
In your other post today at
https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4958#4958
you seem to have 3, maybe 4 concerns, which, apart from having the contrail commonality, are all quite unrelated:
1) contrails spoil a nice blue sky,
2) interference with rainfall and influencing drought,
3) spraying as a UV screen, and possibly,
4) spy satellites and a clear infrared window after the weather (Have I got that right? There's no reference. If there are no contrails at these times, what's the relevance?)
We could discuss all that another time in the another topic under "General Discussion", but how do these concerns relate to what you observed today.
If I'm in Vic or NSW with a few days spare I'll consider taking you up on your offer. I'm fairly partial to Australian reds; that could seriously bias the outcome of your plan for my conversion.
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 977
Location: north-east victoria
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:12 am Post Subject:
Hi, Hector , seems you didn't read my post carefully . my point is , there are chemtrails , which are not the same as contrails .
elevate , that was beautiful!! i only found out the same truth recently , that the gangster elite are just another , bigger mafia . it kind of spoils the queen's christmas speech , once you get the picture . it seems they think they can separate themselves , and their higher technology from the rest of us , and use us as slaves . i agree that it looks plausible that the chemtrail campaign is the prelude to mass murder . i agree that our best hope is in educating ourselves , and i agree that it is a well-founded hope . i don't think the snotgobblers had any idea how quickly the internet could work against them . there has been an attempt to flood it with porn , and that may still work for them , to a degree . this is what you call placebo??
there is a company called starmet , which supplies "depleted" uranium to munitions factories in the USA and the UK , and also makes an aluminium/beryllium alloy , that they make helicopters with . when you google up the owners , you get two people with the same surname , a new york address , and nothing else on those names in google . i was amazed . how do they get that degree of privacy???
my research indicates that the people with the money to buy this degree of privacy , seem to be the european aristocracy , coupled with the families of financiers , who injected themselves into the "nobility" during the last few centuries . to me , one of the big mysteries about the chemtrail issue , is how they have managed to keep the lid on it . our governments must know. our military brass must know . a certain percentage of the public now have a fair idea , except Hector , who has scepticism . we need that , it keeps us honest.
the other big mystery , is who or what is behind the aristocrats and banksters, because i can't believe that a pack of stupid inbreds , coupled to a pack of treacherous cut-throats , could cook up this situation all by themselves .
Steve
____________
I don't know , but I've been told
It's hard to run beneath the weight of gold.
Other hand , I've heard it said ,
It's just as hard beneath the weight of lead
