Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:33 pm Post Subject: Black Beams and Hole Punch Clouds
[Topic split and moved here by Administrator]
Hector wrote:
(somewhat off topic)
I can add this to my list of solved mysteries, but I am still waiting for a confirmation of my 'grey line' solution. It's been so long now I think we can accept that they are shadows and say "solved' to that one too. Comments anyone?
Nice try, Hector.
If it makes you feel better, you can tick everything off your little list. I'm sure you would feel a lot more comfortable. Have you ever personally seen one of the 'black beams'?
And while we are off the subject, I believe Carus asked some time back why the hole punch cloud is a recent phenomenon. What is your explanation for that?
yeah Heckler (Hector) you dont fool me, or anyone else on here hopefully... your tactics of playing down things under the guise of rational sceptical arguement just dont add up to me... trying to suggest that black lines are just shadows because u think yourve solved something else unrelated is poor logic at best and at worst downright misleading... like i said u dont fool me in the slightest, u seem to have an adgenda, and before u say its just an adgenda of getting to the truth etc... i dont buy it, i wont buy it, i see through it
As for black lines been shadows, how does your logic work, lets see...
If i table on this site that I think black lines are caused by giant mars-bars melting on re-entry to the earths atmosphere and leaving a dark streak in the sky, and then leave that comment for a while and no one refutes it, then does that become fact after a certain amount of time that i decide is appropriate? NOPE, it doesnt, its still bollocks...
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:25 pm Post Subject: hey hector
i think its good that u have identified the grey unmarked plane as been some kind of military plane used for various secretive purposes, but i dont see how that means youve solved some mystery here? its doesnt mean anything is "solved" as such, it simply means youve possibly identified a plane used for various purposes, but it does not somehow add up to some mystery solved and ticked off some sheet, ya kno what i mean, i dont give credence to something else... it is what it is, and no more.... but good on ya for the effort to identify and work out who it belongs to all the same...
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:41 pm Post Subject:
elevate wrote:
If i table on this site that I think black lines are caused by giant mars-bars melting on re-entry to the earths atmosphere and leaving a dark streak in the sky, and then leave that comment for a while and no one refutes it, then does that become fact after a certain amount of time that i decide is appropriate? NOPE, it doesnt, its still bollocks...
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:59 pm Post Subject: how about these clouds?
are these considered hole punch clouds? and how would you class these hector?, thanks...
these were taken overseas, ive got two pics of these taken near warkworth i will post tonite once i find them...
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Full sequence here:
http://www.freewebs.com/nztruthgroup/unknowns.htm
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My take on it:
....dramatic example of sky entity uncloaked by chemtrail fallout, shape is visable while cleaning/processing up the chemspray
....working together cleaning up the skies
I probably shd have put this in a seperate thread aye?
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:57 pm Post Subject:
Reading a couple of hole punch threads, it seems that Hector suggests that they just might not have been noticed and documented until recently. Early forum member Azimuth had correspondence with some of our meterologists who acknowledged to him that they thought it was a recent phenomena.
Here are some his posts from last year on Chemtrail Central where he mentions this several times:
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:27 pm Post Subject: i used to love checking things out in the sky as a kid
im certain i dont remember seeing these guys in the sky, id remember if i had, i remember seeing normail contrails too when i was a kid, but no REALLY persistant ones, actually no persistent ones at all, not for more than 2 minutes..
Have you ever personally seen one of the 'black beams'?
First, I apologise for not correctly naming the things. I knew it was some combination of black or grey and beams or lines, but apparently everyone knows what I mean. No, I have not personally seen one. I have seen a shadow cast on cloud by a jet that was producing a contrail. I wasn't able to photograph it but I am sure I described it in a post a few months ago. (I could find it and give the reference.) But a shadow cast by a contrail on a lower layer of cloud isn't what you mean, is it. You mean an apparent 'line' or 'beam' as an extension of a contrail ahead of the plane, or behind where the contrail has dissipated. A rare and special thing... the sun has to be in the right place in relation to the contrail and the observer, and there needs to be a fair amount of dust or haze in the air for it to show up at all. I have seen several photos of what you would call a 'black line' on the Internet, and in the majority of cases they are described in the caption as shadows.
And while we are off the subject, I believe Carus asked some time back why the hole punch cloud is a recent phenomenon. What is your explanation for that?
The only "new" thing is the possible increase in the availability and type of crystallisation nuclei for the super-cooled water droplets.
which was a reference to that comment. I don't have a definitave answer about that. I wish I did. Anyway, I felt the question had already been answered in other posts.
elevate said,
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your tactics of playing down things under the guise of rational sceptical arguement
I don't think I have never said I was advancing any kind of scepticism... and certainly I hope my posts are not typical of a 'sceptic' on these types of forums. (Go on, search all my posts and fine one.) I have applied well known scientific knowledge to phenomena that some people here think are mysterious, secret and/or clandestine operations, etc. My impression of the purpose of the site is to discuss and expose these things. That is what I am doing. If you don't understand something and you want more explantion, then politely ask, like Carus did.
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trying to suggest that black lines are just shadows because u think yourve solved something else unrelated is poor logic at best and at worst downright misleading
What I said was,
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I can add this to my list of solved mysteries, but I am still waiting for a confirmation of my 'grey line' solution. It's been so long now I think we can accept that they are shadows and say 'solved' to that one too.
Now, where and how do you reason that I suggested that black lines are shadows because I solved something else?
We have all seen crepuscular rays. The sun, usually at a low elevation but not always, shines through a gap in clouds or past the edge of clouds. The irregular shape of the cloud casts a shadow which has the appearance of rays in the haze and dust particles in the atmosphere. Very well.
Contrails cast shadows - they are just clouds after all. The shadow of a contrail will behave the same way as crepuscular rays. If the sun is in the right position in relation to the contrail and the observer, the shadow will appear to be a beam along the line of the contrail.
Have a look at the photos of these "beams" and see if crepuscular rays might be a plausible explanation. Where is the sun in relation to the contrail?
He said (among other things)
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Now as to the Grey Beams and your comments, we'd prefer to create a new thread on this topic as the subject is most compelling and could get buried here in this unrelated thread. We also think we'd better start calling the phenomena 'Black Lines' as that seems to be the preferred designation within the accepted nomenclature of such stuff on the web. We actually have had an article on this particular phenomenon in preparation for some time (one of many), so now we'll rush it to print in the form of a post and that will give you something to sink your scientific teeth into.
Hahaha, it looks like you are continuing to exercise your sense of humour again. In case you have made a 'genuine' comment, we feel we must attempt to educate you. Shadows are shadows, they are not Black Lines. There are two types of shadows associated with contrails, neither are Black Lines. There are also Distrails, they are not Black Lines. Some people think that Black Lines are shadows, even some' Chemtrail sites’ label photos of shadows as Black Lines, they are all wrong. Only Black Lines are Black Lines. Black Lines are very scary stuff; they have the power to severely shake up your version of reality. Don't go there Hector...
Well, we are still waiting to be educated, despite a further invitation (on behalf of those who were not afraid) for John to post the material he said he had nearly ready in August.
So, in the absence of anything further about this from John for 4 months, I am (provocatively but not seriously) suggesting that the shadow theory is the most plausible one to explain what appears to be black/grey lines/beams, and maybe time to accept it. Must I explicitly signal jokes, windups and statements of fact or opinion? Come on, lighten up!
elevate then said
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i think its good that u have identified the grey unmarked plane ... but good on ya for the effort to identify and work out who it belongs to all the same...
Thanks. Night_Owl observed the thing and was motivated enough to find out what the plane was that he registered here on Mysterious New Zealand and posted his question. Doesn't that make it, at least in one person's eyes, a mystery? Then again, I may be quite wrong about that plane. He only said grey, unmarked, long, a jet and 'regal'. Could be anything... almost. Night_Owl emphasises that he is sure it was unmarked - see the post above. So, any other suggestions.
Melody quotes elevate's parody of an explanation for black lines and his reasoning for dismissing my light claim to a solution. The giant mars-bars theory? Well, OK, whatever, add it to the collection of explanations for the black lines, but it's not very plausible, is it? really? If this is going to be the quality of the discussion, perhaps, to lift the standard, John can be persuaded to post his material on the subject. While he is silent, this thing just keeps growing longer legs.
elevate again
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are these considered hole punch clouds? and how would you class these hector?, thanks...
I think, elevate, those are hole-punch clouds.
and again
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My take on it:
....dramatic example of sky entity uncloaked by chemtrail fallout, shape is visable while cleaning/processing up the chemspray
....working together cleaning up the skies
Yeah. Right.
Back to reality, and thanks for that, Melody observes
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Reading a couple of hole punch threads, it seems that Hector suggests that they just might not have been noticed and documented until recently. Early forum member Azimuth had correspondence with some of our meterologists who acknowledged to him that they thought it was a recent phenomena.
and elevate recalls
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im certain i dont remember seeing these guys in the sky, id remember if i had, i remember seeing normail contrails too when i was a kid, but no REALLY persistant ones, actually no persistent ones at all, not for more than 2 minutes..
The increased occurrence of both hole-punch clouds and persistent contrails may be a consequence of more water vapour in the troposphere (lowest 10-12km of the atmosphere). And more water vapour in the atmosphere is probably a consequence of the way the global climate is changing (=warming). I don't know of any research results to reference for you... I wouldn't be surprised if it were so. It would explain the 'relatively recent phenomenon' observations.
There may be a case, Admin, for leaving the hole-punch photos here. If there is anything in elevate's take on them they belong in a UFO topic... but your call.
The contrail shadow I observed In Masterton last August is described here
https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3607#3607
Incidentally, that post was preceded by a successful contrail forecast. If the occurence of contrails can be forecast
then they are nothing to do with alleged spray operations.
About these 'sky entities' cleaning up the skies for us:
Contrails are formed at high altitude - generally above 30000 feet at the cirrus cloud altitudes.
The hole-punch thing is always in alto-cumulus which occurs between 10000 and 18000. So the idea that these entities are
cleaning up after spray operations is founded on the false premise that both of these occur in the same altitude
range.
Adding weight to the falacy view is that I have not seen any evidence that the occurrence of hole-punch forms is linked in
time and space with contrails. If there is some evidevce of that - let's see it. Also, cirrus level cloud does not
transmogrify into altocumulous cloud - there is no atmospheric process that I am aware of that does that. If you
know of such a process then describe it with references to other accounts.
Homer would say, "I for one welcome the sky entities, but they are apparently not cleaning up the chemtrail mess, not at that height."
Adding weight to the falacy view is that I have not seen any evidence that the occurrence of hole-punch forms is linked in time and space with contrails. If there is some evidevce of that - let's see it
This web page has examples of contrails above hole punch/fall streak clouds. See the Belgium Europe 2005 photos half way down.
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:08 pm Post Subject: i see
i see your logic hector but it doesnt add up all the same.
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The hole-punch thing is always in alto-cumulus which occurs between 10000 and 18000
Thats just an assumption really, how do you know this is a fact in all cases? perhaps its something obseved in some instances...
Ive just uploaded pics from yesterday over porirua.. a good example of persistent chemtrails at various altitudes and all of it messing up the sky...
ive been reading your comments hector, but time and time again i see people commenting all over the web that years back contrails never persisted...
this is something i am also certain of.. a change HAS taken place and it cant be denied for those with eyes to see, in the 70s and 80s and early 1990s i never saw a persistent contrail, this is a new phenomenom, it fits in with the sunscreen theory that is now been tabled by Bush and co and it fits with the NWO adgenda
Hector Im also curious of what you make of this video here:
Here we see two planes directly parallel with each other.
I also saw this yesterday over porirua but it doesnt show up well on the pics.. there was a plane paralell to the other plane that was NOT laying a chemtrail,a nd u can see from my pics a very faint contrail next to the chemtrail. this is quite telling in itself...
anyway back to the video above, how do you explain hector thses two planes side by side (against the rules), one trail is a different colour to the other so clearly different compositions in the spray..
Id be interested in your comments on this video Hector
thanks
i dont know who you are hector, you could be just a die-hard scepic and a rational and material type person, or you could be a deliberate plant to steer people away from the reality of the NWO adgenda... that may seem hard to believe for many... but its not really when u consider just how many people work for the cia all over the world simply employed to diseminate information that suits the adgenda, after all this project is no small undertaking, and it requires a lot of people employed for various reasons to hide or change truths, anyway interested in your take Hector on this chemtrail video above, thanks
its possible Hector that you could be sincere and just looking for your own interest, but from what Melody found regarding your posts elsewhere its hard to see you as just a sceptic with no adgenda, but its not important really, whats important is the truth... soon the public will be fed more info about the sunscreen lie to stop global warming, its already started with that item on tv3 as i mentioned in another post, what do u make of that hector?
We have patents for the technology which have been around for decades, now we have the excuse for using the technology (global warming), do u still think this technology isnt been used hector?
stay tuned to the up and comming news broadcasts and you will see the gradual change from speculation of sunscreen techologies to admitting its nessesary for our survival, we are been slowly fed a lie, and Al Gores campaign of lies is all part of it...
NOTE: on this video clearly can be seen a black line projected in front of ONE of the planes only... this is a very interesting video and worth pausing and watching closely, we see two different coloured lines formed and two planes very close and a black line effect.
Also hector watch this video, does this look normal to you?
here we see normal planes NOT laying trails and other planes laying trails on the same day at simalar altitudes, go figure?
or how about this staggering video.. where two jets come very close to each other from the opposite directions, i recon these guys gotta be jet fighter pilots to be doing maneuvers like this.. i think its done to make scalar effects more visual for their testing of various frequency affects in the sky for various reasons and purposes... check it out!
How u explain these close flying over uk civilian airspace? the guy who took these vids has more vids showing civilian planes not leaving trails and unmarked planes leaving trails on the same day...
Like the guy says in the video... "..not a cloud in the sky... everything you see here is from planes"
sounds like a lie to fix global warming to me.... but really with the intention of preparing the population for a mass culling by weakening us first... thats whats going on.... the weather modification bill in congress, a perfect excuse to kill us ligitimately with a bullsh*t cover story...
I recon while we argue with skeptics like Hector we are wasting our time argueing about the proof of this phenomenom, when we already know well enough that its happening, perhaps these people that pop up in places like this and on trademe messageboards where they have different aliases (hint hint) are really here to just steer us away from actually doing something about this, they waste our time and efforts by trying to make us proof irrefutably something that is been kept from the public... maybey the good that will come of it will be that we do end up with such a convincing collecion of evidence both visual and tactile that this time wont be wasted..
but lets work together now to show this info in ways that are convincing and also find ways to mitigate chemtrails using orgonite for example, lets fight and combat this menace with peaceful means at our disposal...
theres plenty of info on the net for and against the chemtrail issue, let those skeptics that have already found this information decide for themselves, they are obviously capable of researching etc, it is not these people that we need to get through to!
they are mere distractions designed to frustrate and channel useful energy in the wrong direction i recon...
we need to be reaching out to the average public and finding ways to alert them and inform them... thats where our energies should be channeled !
Not at skeptics with some adgenda of their own or someone elses design.
We need to hold public meetings on this, im putting forward this idea now..
It may have already been said, but anyway lets work toghether and devise ways in the comming weeks we can create some kind of public knowlege of chemtrails..
when i spoke to Sue at the greens she said their needed to be public awareness before they would act on the chemtrails issue and that it had to happen at a grass roots level, basically what she said is that the public needs to demand some discussion of it or it wont happen, she aint gona get into it unless we do something first and get the ball rolling... SO
Wellingtonians... we should have a movie night on chemtrails, show two well known movies on the subject like aerosol crimes and then maybey chemtrails: clouds of death..
we can bring our orgonite creatioins and show people how they work and how to make them, a presentation and evening of photoswapping etc, we can encourage others to bring along their own photos etc AND then we can put posters up around town same as weve done for 911 docos etc and then we can have a name list after the movie for those who came to encourage them to take their own photos and talk to others about this, and it may grow and grow.. like the 911 things growing...
lets get the jump on these guys at least in NZ, and hold discussions about chemtrails before the powers that be feed the public the lies theya re about to do, if we expose they adgenda and the global warming excuse before its fully made public then we can help wake people up... sorry im waffling on but anyway lets have a movie night in the next month or two..
any thoughts?, can do the same in Auckland too and main centres... if we all work together on this...
these nights can be to just share thought and ideas, we dont need to prove chemtrails are real conclusively before we have public meetings like this, because its just an opportunity to discuss the subject openly for whatever conclusions may be drawn...
The hole-punch thing is always in alto-cumulus which occurs between 10000 and 18000
Thats just an assumption really, how do you know this is a fact in all cases? perhaps
its something obseved in some instances...
No, it's not an assumption. It's an observation which is supported by the known properties of water and ice, and the suggested process that results in these cloud forms.
It won't occur at altitudes where the air temperature is above freezing. It won't occur at altitudes where the air temperature is too cold for liquid water droplets to exist without freezing. It will only occur at altitudes where you will find supercooled liquid water droplets which is between the freezing level and the altitude where the temperature is warmer than about -20 degC which is between 10000 feet and 18000 feet - the middle cloud level, so altocumulus. You won't see it in stratocumulus (a low cloud type), or in any of the cirrus types (high cloud). Perhaps, elevate, you had better re-read the posts that describe the formation process. They are on this site; you can search them out.
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ive been reading your comments hector, but time and time again i see people commenting all over the web that years back contrails never persisted... this is something i am also certain of.. a change HAS taken place and it cant be denied for those with eyes to see, in the 70s and 80s and early 1990s i never saw a persistent contrail, this is a new phenomenom
Jets have been producing contrails, persistent and not, spreading and not, since jet planes started flying at altitudes where the conditions (ambient temperature and RH) are right for them. This is documented in the published research on contrails - look for authors like Schumann, Ninnis, Appleman, Schrader.
Almost everybody who posts here has had some kind of epiphany when they read an article in Investigate magazine or found Chemtrail Central or weatherwars on the Internet. Up to that time, contrails were benign and just part of the cloudscape. Having been awakened to the horror of it all, you notice every occurrence. Pretty soon 'chemtrails' become the explanation for all your major and minor health and motivational problems, unexpected weather conditions, static electricity shocks from your car, what else? ... you complete the list.
Air travel scheduling has increased due to public demand for more competition, and airlines have responded by using smaller aircraft like the B737, and re-powering them with modern, quieter, more efficient, high-bypass engines. If there were no direct Christchurch-Rotorua air service you would hardly see any contrails over Wellington. (See the excellent flight vector map published on this site.) That route is in response to demands of the travelling public in recent years. There has been an increase in the occurrence of contrails. The explanation is market forces, public demand and aeronautical engineering. Anyone with a brain to think can understand that.
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Hector Im also curious of what you make of this video here:
I will have a look at the videos you have referenced when I have access to a bigger pipe... streaming video is a bit fat for dial-up.
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... or you could be a deliberate plant to steer people away from the reality of the NWO adgenda...
I suppose that could be possible, but I am not. I have answered similar suggestions along these lines before. I think I know something about meteorology and contrails, and you think you know something about contrails. We're now discussing the matter on a public, registered-posters-only forum. That's all there is to it.
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... but from what Melody found regarding your posts elsewhere its hard to see you as just a sceptic with no adgenda
What did Melody find regarding my posts "elsewhere"? I don't post anywhere else. There may be another Hector posting somewhere; he's not this Hector.
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the sunscreen lie to stop global warming
What? How the hell does that work? interested in your take elevate on this
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We have patents for the technology which have been around for decades, now we have the excuse for using the technology (global warming)
Who is the "We"? What patents? What technology? "now we have" ... is this the same "we" as the former?
Oh! elevate, I know! It's that hoary old patent document that's done the rounds of all the chemtrail sites a while ago. There is far better spraying technology available nowadays than that old piece of junk! And, what exactly is "the global warming technology"? You're way ahead of me on that one!
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perhaps these people that pop up in places like this and on trademe messageboards where they have different aliases (hint hint)
Eh? I have no idea what you're on about, elevate. Could you post a link or two, and then explain it to us all?
Raise public awareness... sure, why not? From what you have said here, elevate, your message couldn't be better spun for broad public appeal. Not! I think you've got a lot of tidying up and 'inoculating of your own to do, if you know what I mean. Read "The Hollow Men" by Nicky Hager if you don't. Copies might be in the public libraries by now, donated by public spirited people.
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:25 pm Post Subject: hiya
youve just carried on in this last post of yours in the same vane as expected... asking me to show you the evidence and prove to you all this is real.. check out the other recent threads on here... we have more to be concerned with than proving anything to a die-hard skeptic, it cant be done, actually i shouldnt say that ...as ive seen it done, ive seen many die-hard skeptics of the 911 inside job theory changing their views in the last few years, including some close friends and thats given me hope that people can see the truth once it sinks in, it takes time, you have to get past your industry trained eyes and past the fact that subconsiously you dont want to believe any of this...
but let me quickly mention... i understand that there has been an increase in air traffic in recent years, a moderate increase yes and it may cause some visual changes, but it doesnt account for wahts occuring... ive seen this all over the country, from raglan to wanaka to smaller towns where these trails persist, block out the sun etc...
patents: there a many more than the patent you refer to.. i know the one u mean, there are many more since then, some specifiying barium and aluminium specifically as refelctive agents and precipitation agents...
-you google it hector, you can find the info if you WANT to, but no you want me to find it for you... just google "chemtrail patents", and check out the various other patents, not just the obvious old one you pointed out, you could also try
"chemtrail patent barium" etc, you get the picture, why dont you use your brain, stop expecting me to help you every baby step of the way to realisation...
the reason i say this is cause 10 years ago i would have been doubtfull of the reality of the nwo adgenda, im not anymore, im way beyond that..
im sorry i dont have an easy step by step set of links and info to attempt to prove why i have my views or how i came to them exactly, like is said before, decide for yeself... its not important to me that you believe in this stuff, its important to me that others like me and those who are open minded will have an oppportunity to take action and inform others whie we can...
this situation isnt black & white, i dont have all the answers or even some of the answers, but i know whats going on, i know an obvious setup when i see it, and thats what i see with this new sunscreen theory of bushs,
its the convientint lie to sell us a ligitimate use for chemtrails... you just wait and see hector, watch the news and it will unfold... Al Gore is the spokesman for global warming, and hes bushs buddy doing his bit for the global elites big game plan....
Ive done this dozens of times with people now, ive written long and lengthy emails and had debates with guys just like you, who usually work in a field related to aeronautic industry or simalar...
you are like the doctor thats indoctrinated into believing in a a certain 'reality' of possibility, and cant see that cures for cancer do exist outside of the mainstream pharmaceutical system for example, and when a patient goes back and says they cured themselves using such a product, then the doctor immediately assumes the origonal diagnosis was a mistake, and it dosenst go on the medical record as a cure but as a false diagnoses instead.. because the doctor doesnt want to beleive it because of the consequences that knowlege brings to his professional career.
perhaps its not a great comparison...
its a shame you cant watch the youtube videos, and the videos we recently published on the detention centre in Trentham, all these things are related to chemtrails...
you could be a straight up guy hector, i dont know that either... but i beleive you when say u can account for many trail activity, but anyway u gotta see those youtube vids from cheshire in the uk man, really helps to see that!
check out the other threads on here too about bushs sunscreen thing, and google it while your at it, the pieces will start to come together..
cheers
J
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:42 pm Post Subject: yup - good info in this post for skeptics and curious alike!
just to note hector, if y read the other threads youll see theres things to be done, i havnt got time for debating with ya about all this
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contrails were benign and just part of the cloudscape. Having been awakened to the horror of it all, you notice every occurrence.
but i gotta say here... bollocks! man, your trying to put ideas into our minds here..
when i was younger I remeber seeing contrails many times.. i can even recall with fairly good clarity right now a time when i was a kid and i saw a big contrail over lake wanaka, and i sat there and watched it for 5 minutes until it completely dissapeared, i thought they looked cool in the sky and i used to pint them out to my family whenever i saw them, and id think of the people up there and what the view must be like from there, etc,,you know... stuff u think of when u r a kid... the wonder years as they say... well i never saw a persistent contrail all those years, if i had i would also have thought it cool and interesting, and i would have observed it spread out and cover the sky, but that never happened...
AND.. i believe others when they say this same thing, i believe them! .. also i have seen 'things' in the sky that are not clouds at times in my life that i couldnt explain ... and ive seen things recently that i cant explain, that doesnt mean they arent real though...
out in porirua the other day (ive posted some pics in galleries) i saw two planes side by side... one leaft a permanent thick whitish yellow contrail that spread out, the other leaft a tiny faint normal contrail this is just visable on the pic to the right of the chemtrail...
see the faint trail just to the right and parallel to this trail? i saw that at the same time been laid at roughly the same altitude, these planes were flying pretty close... this is also seen on the uk youtube videos but much more dramatically, you can see examples of planes leaving a contrail and annother plane leaving a chemtrail at the same time in a simalar altitude in the same part of the sky
by the way, see all that hazy 'cloud cover ' in this photo? ALL that you can see in this photo is artificial ! none of it is 'normal' cloud cover, I know this because i sat at the porirua shopping complex and watched these trails spread out and form these web like precipitations, heres a photo taken shortly after to show you the obvious dramatic spread out of this trail... these trails never disaapear they just spread out and get thinner, and you notice it when you look towards the sun, then u can see how much of this @$#&!!* is just sitting there...
see going from top left to bottom right is that trail speading out, and the crap around it is earlier trails mixing in, and voila ! you have an artificial sunscreen ! a so called quick fix for global warming... in every UN country this is happening.. sounds crazy doesnt it!
ANYWAY Hector you must see those youtube vids, honestly it aint worth disgussing further with you until at least you are up to speed on the visual evidence...
cheers and good luck to ya.
see all this crap in the sky over porirua?
its all artificial.. i watched it all form as each trail spread out and mixed with the older ones... ive seen this a few hundreds of times now, gee is it just all my imagination? i think not
hey Hector heres some more info for you.. on project cloverleaf etc..
obviously they arent called chemtrails in these patents , it aint that obvious or spelled out for us..
Also hector please read this article on childrens science books in the us talking about chemtrails like its common knowledge! very interesting..
also this lot im pasting from annother email i sent to a skeptic some time ago.. might be useful info for ya and others on here who havnt heard of the school textbook chemtrail story..
Quote:
watch "Global Dimming" (BBC 2005) the whole point of that doco is that we are keeping temperatures down by increasing pollution. Why do u think bush has gone so against reducing pollution in the last 5 years weve seen a turnaround in policy for emmisssions.
from global dimming we see that on the days after sept 11 when there was no flights in US, the average temperature increased by a wopping 1 degree celcius. That is huge and the implications are huge.
Like in the school book reference they actually suggest that polution (soot) may help with protecting us from the suns rays.
what u think about the school link?
i mean it says in the science textbook that adding chemicals to the jet fuel is for making a sun-screen... kind of a weird thing to put in the school ciriculum unless they wanted to get kids used to the idea at a young age... it wouldnt be in the textbook if it wasnt been done surely?
Its obvious if u look into government involvment in this issue that at some time in the recent past it was decided to attempt to halt global warming by doing exactly what they are doing...
adding particulates of metal or barium or whatever works best for reflecting 1-2% of the suns rays back into space...
this school textbook is pretty interesting evidence... but theres plently of evidence of the science involved.
Obvious evidence of Chemtrails Sun-screen
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the patents were filed for example:
US patent 6,315,213 (Cordani) issued November 13, 2001.
Global Warming and Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change, Edward Teller and Lowell Wood, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, prepared for invited presentation at the International Seminar On Planetary Emergencies, Erice, Italy, August 20-23, 1997; also "The Planet Needs a Sunscreen," Wall Street Journal, 10-17-97.
"An Airline Manager's Statement," Posted by C.E. Carnicom on behalf of the author, 5-22-00. Quote: "The few airline employees who were briefed on Project Cloverleaf were all made to undergo background checks, and before we were briefed on it we were made to sign non-disclosure agreements which basically state that if we tell anyone what we know we could be imprisoned....They told us that the government was going to pay our airline, along with others, to release special chemicals from commercial aircraft....When we asked them why didn't they just rig military aircraft to spray these chemicals, they stated that there weren't enough military aircraft available to release chemicals on such a large basis as needs to be done....Then someone asked why all the secrecy. The government reps then stated that if the general public knew that the aircraft they were flying on were releasing chemicals into the air, environmentalist groups would raise hell and demand the spraying stop."
36. US patent 5003186; Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming, Hughes Aircraft Company, issued March 26, 1991.
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Dr. Edward Teller
Both the Pentagon’s aerosol operations and its limited nuclear wars are deeply interconnected. We can trace the beginnings of Operation Cloverleaf right to the Strangelove brain of Dr. Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb and proponent of nuking inhabited coast lines to rearrange them for economic projects. Before he died in 2003, Teller was director emeritus of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, where plans for nuclear, biological and directed energy weapons are crafted. In 1997, Teller publicly outlined his proposal to use aircraft to scatter in the stratosphere millions of tons of electrically-conductive metallic materials, ostensibly to reduce global warming.
Shortly after Teller’s presentation, the public began seeing frenetic chemtrailing. In 2000, CBS News admitted that scientists were "looking at drastic solutions for global warming, including manipulating the atmosphere on a massive scale." CBS confirmed that the plan to load the air with tiny particles would "deflect enough sunlight to trigger global cooling."
Teller estimated that commercial aircraft could be used to spew these particles at a cost of 33 cents a pound. This gives credence to a report by an airline manager, forced by a compulsory non-disclosure agreement to remain anonymous, that commercial aircraft have been co-opted to assist the military in consummating Project Cloverleaf. A 1991 Hughes aircraft patent confirms that sunscreen particulate materials can be run through jet engines. A science textbook now used in some public schools discusses the sunscreen project by showing a large orange-red jet with the caption, "Jet engines running on richer fuel would add particles to the atmosphere to create a sunscreen." The logo on the plane says "Particle Air." The implications of this crucial information should not be understated. A program to make America’s millions of annual jet flights a source of specially designed particulate pollution is serious business.
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So after checking out this info dude, do u still think chemtrails are bullshit?
this should keep you busy for a while Hector, enjoy!!
this is just some of the pages of stuff i put together for some others who asked..
i guess it wasnt hard to go back to youtube inbox and copy and paste it after all, i hope you find the info usefull, sorry for my reluctance to offer assistance earlier...
i guess i just get frustrated with people sometimes who dont seem to want to find the info themselves...
tell me what u think of these patents then? and the school book stuff etc... it all adds up man... lastly see this reference to operation sunscreen (its much older than they say and already in use)
Im pretty sure that this is the jet doing all the chemtrails here. It is small and quick
with no sound and I have seen it fly directly upwards which Im fairly certain a lot of aircraft would find difficult.
Here is a spectacular satellite image of hole-punch clouds and various other cloud phenomena induced by the passage of aircraft... including contrails in the full size image (northeast, or top-left if you prefer).
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:25 pm Post Subject: ail
Quote:
Deano
Do you really mean what I think you are saying.
Straight up?
Not mainy Airforce fighter planes can do that!
Thats what I thought. But it went straight upwards for some half minute, leveled off and turned and flew south towards Wellington. Made no sound. Have seen it here in the Manawatu chemtrailing on numerous occasions. Hard to get a good photo.
NOTE: Chemtrail activity in my region has died right off, we're usually peppered at this time of the year.
It can be deceiving at times when looking from the ground. I was travelling through Hamilton in December last year and saw a contrail that appeared to me, to be ascending.
After much discussion with info4, (i.e. it couldn’t be from Hamilton airport as contrails don’t form at that altitude) I could see as we drove further on that it was horizontal after all.
A few years back we saw a dramatic contrail in West Auckland that appeared to be going straight up as you describe, but we witnessed it go over us, north to south, quickly and silently and obviously horizontally after it passed over.
