Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ

[Hector]

This post is a reply to a post by steve clougher at https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5881#5881 in Reporting Area - Chemtrails, topic Marlborough sky 29 Dec >>>.

[steve clougher]

thanks, Hector, glad you're giving this your best shot

what do you know about this spectrum analysis gear?

can you rent it?

[steve clougher]

well i looked at that Discovery vid, looks dodgy to me........shifty-looking hombres, i certainly wouldn't like to trust any of them with my satellite

what about the kind of spectrum analysis they do on the light from stars?

can't i get one of them, as a feature on one of the better brands of mobile phone, perhaps?

seriously, can something like that be used to analyse the contents of a cloud?
or does it need to be at thousands of degrees ?

[Hector]

[steve clougher]

just a suggestion, it's by no means a pleasant subject to study, but if you take the time to investigate the people who control commodities, and currencies, believe me, it changes your perspective

in my case, i had a deep faith in the expertise and respectability of those blokes in suits (they are all males) who make decisions on interest rates, and how much money to print

of course i had a degree of cynicism too, but i had an underlying complacency, which i did not know was there until it was shattered

have a look at the "opal files"........it's only 25 pages, of startling revelations, giving a blueprint for the invasion of Australia and New Zealand by means of corrupting selected businessmen, academics, politicians and the media , using no other weapon than money

i found googling "federal reserve corruption" led into fields that detailed the insane ruthlessness of the powermongers

as to the possible connection between the HAARP "experiments" and chemtrails (sic) , the thing that really clinched the conviction that weird stuff is going on, for me,( and i have looked closely, the whole time, at the possibility that, like the bunyip, they really don't exist,) is the observations i have made of heavy trails appearing behind aeroplanes in the lower and middle troposphere.

without a rangefinder, i cannot, of course, give you figures, but i can assure you that i have excellent long vision, and i happen to live where there is a large amount of air traffic

it is not a matter of fine judgement.......on a dozen occasions in the last three years, i have seen planes giving off really thick trails, flying significantly lower than normal traffic, when said normal traffic was giving off only the normal short, non-persistent condensation trail

on a few of these occasions, the low-flying planes were flying strange vectors, or in a holding pattern, and producing inordinate persistent trails

in the last six months, i have seen chemtrails (sic) preceding rainclouds, with remarkable predictability, that seems to have nothing to do with the dew point and altitude

even factoring in a large credibility gap , on account of possible inversion-layer phenomena, the picture gained is hugely anomalous

other air traffic in the same area has been releasing ordinary contrails, or nothing at all

i'm talking about a score of episodes , in six months, which i have documented

ultimately, proof can only come from a group effort , spread over a large area, recording air pressures, temperatures, wind shear etc., such as you suggested for the monitoring of planes and fuel.

in fact, this effort won't be forthcoming, and in the case of your suggestion, i think you would find that first, there would no longer be adequate visual access from the terminal, and second, anyone making observations of this kind in an airport, under the present laws, would soon find themselves spending most of their time in the local police-station, answering pointed questions

when you also study a bit about Nikola Tesla, and examine the evidence for the development of "starwars" weapons systems, the connection between HAARP, chemtrails (sic), and weather control, among other propositions, becomes less far-fetched

to believe that the anomalies i see regularly, can always be explained by temperature inversion layers, (no doubt some can!) is far harder to swallow

[steve clougher]

here's something that elucidates how soundings are made, by the people with "Finance"

http://www.ips.gov.au/IPSHosted/INAG/web-64/2003/benito.pdf

this Spanish station utilises radio transmissions in 2830 Mhz at 1 Kw, and long wavelenths at 10Kw, to probe the ionosphere, using a "digisonde"

much mention is made of the excellent local wines!!!

it seems there has been a heap of Finance made available for PhD studies into the "coupling" of the ionosphere with the stratosphere!

stay tuned............................

[Hector]

That is ionosphere and stratosphere, not troposphere.



Look, the bottom of the latest published sounding ( http://www.inta.es/iono/IonoGIF/ ) starts at 60km, 50km above the tropopause! It's nothing to do with the troposphere or contrails! The HAARP guys might be interested, though HARRP isn't mentioned in the collaborations list. Who knows?

Back to the earlier post...

"commodities, and currencies ... corrupting selected businessmen, academics, politicians and the media" I know. Whatever; it's not about contrails, so ... some other topic some other time.

[steve clougher]

that's a good idea, to triangulate with a friend
if it's nothing to do with inversion layers, though, which i agree with, tentatively, then there is an anomaly
altitude is a problem, admitted, but much less of a problem for me than for you.

i'm completely, unequivocally certain that i've seen planes flying lower than others, in the same timeframe, giving off heaps of trail, where the higher flying planes were giving off little or none

one of the commonest stories, and one which emanates from official sources, concerning HAARP, is that one of its anticipated gifts to science and the human race, will be the ability to place a dense airmass in the way of oncoming ballistic missiles

other projected functions include the transfer of energy from the ionosphere to any place on the earth's surface

if it stretches your credulity, to contemplate these things, perhaps it will help to investigate the well-documented achievements of Nikola Tesla, and discover for yourself what he was able to achieve with resonating systems, sixty and seventy years ago

for myself, i don't have a problem envisaging resonating, amplified and focused energy being directed with scant respect for the supposed discrete layers of the atmosphere and ionosphere

thanks for the geek fashion advice, that is very funny, but unless it's very cold or littered with broken glass, i go barefoot

i don't know how long it is since you went looking at aeroplanes in large airports, but "security" measures have ensured that your suggestion about watching the fuel trucks would be futile, plus, the likelihood is more ,that additives would be administered by a separate contractor

one report states that an airport employee found three extra tanks in the toilet holding compartment, and that the product was released via the static eliminators on the trailing edges of the mainplane

i don't imagine that that method applies across the board, and it would be reassuring to get more than one such report

another report, or rather a theory, has it that if an electrical charge can be applied over the top of a raincloud, it can prevent the rain from falling.......in this theory, the chemtrail acts as a flux

i've seen plenty of chemtrail activity that would seem to support this theory

another way to dry up rain, might be to concentrate airmass in the vicinity of a raincloud , and increase the local air pressure

i take note of your reluctance to admit that there is anything in this. You may be right, it may all be paranoid illusion. all i would say about that at this stage, is there is a lot of evidence pointing in a coherent way, to something entirely different to that

forget about the implications for weather-forecasters, for just a minute, if the weather is controlled by the US military.......shudder!......put yourself in the position of the mad b...st...ds who have to keep grabbing more and more power to keep ahead of the other mad b...st....ds coming up behind them.

before you react, and reject all these ideas out of hand, just play around with them for a bit, have a scout around some of the "fringe" websites, with a view to getting some pointers to help you in your (pretended) ambition for world domination

these sites may not be around much longer, apparently John Howard , just before he stepped down , introduced legislation, without debate, giving the federal police discretionary powers to remove websites, if they qualified as "terrorist" sites in the opinion of the police

[steve clougher]

i'd like to try and describe in detail, some of the things i've been mentioning

in late november, i saw a jet, painted red like Virgin Airlines, lay a thick, short trail, bang over the top of a very active thunderstorm, which lay on the flight corridor, between Sydney and Melbourne, which this aircraft seemed to be following, in the normal way, perhaps a bit lower than normal for jets

next, to my surprise, (i have never, at any other time in three years, seen a plane do this), it turned south, and headed directly towards another group of thunderstorms,perhaps 15 or 20 km. away, which i was watching on the BOM weather radar

Before it vanished behind trees, i saw it start to lay chem, as it approached these storms

to my complete astonishment, when i went out to look half an hour later, the thunderhead had collapsed out of existence.......this was at 6pm, when these things are usually at the most powerful stage of expansion

the month of december has been remarkable, in that chemtrails have been apparent almost exclusively, slightly before, and during the passage of rainclouds.

Hector has suggested a perfectly reasonable scenario, for why this should be so, in his previous post, and others. By all means , Hector, i have tried to keep such considerations in mind! Do you know of any second-hand radiosonde sounders on the market?

unfortunately, and i wish it were otherwise! the observed phenomena are not so easily explained

over the last year, there have been chemtrails observed in all kinds of conditions, regarding humidity. without being able to measure the relative humidity directly, a seat-of-the-pants assessment can be made, taking into account the information available on the BOM site, etc.

at the same time, the progression from trails to haze can be seen to correspond very much, with the humidity level, as could be expected

as well, the phenomenon of planes producing trails at lower altitudes than those producing nothing , not even contrails, has in a high percentage of cases , looked likely, and in some, has been absolutely obvious

only the month of december, to my knowledge, has exhibited this almost stringent correspondence, between chemtrails and approaching rain, the trails appearing, typically in equally spaced lines, in groups of three, between 4 hours and just a few minutes before the rain front

other months have had a more mixed record

one front i saw , had a lot of overcast preceding it, and no chem was visible, until it passed, and for a limited time, you could look over the back of this receding squall front, and see five fat chemtrails, exactly evenly spaced

as well, during its passage , jets were audible, very loud

that was the most blatant exhibit of december, but the same pattern was evident every time rain looked imminent, all month:chemtrails, low-flying jets in overcast conditions, no rain or little , out of promising clouds,.......with one exception: just before christmas, we got two to three inches, out of a bigger than usual "weather event" and guess what, ? no chemtrails to be seen.

there has been little chem activity since the rain.....no rain either!

thanks for the pointers and help, Hector/Ross. i don't think i'll take your fashion tips to heart, but i will certainly look into the weather-education stuff, as an ongoing thing. even if this chemtrail controversy was resolved today, that knowledge is valuable

[Hector]

Thanks for your observation notes.

I suggested that your qualitative height estimations were awry because of the lack of high ground for height and distance clues but you didn't comment about your surrounds. My map of southeast Australia shows you have some hills around Wodonga, but there are no spot heights; shading suggests it's all below 500m AMSL except to the south and east. I urge you to try some quantitative paired height observations. You can do it photographically and pick off the angles from the images. You will need to do some calibrations at the zoom you use. Get azimuth from landmarks and knowing where the photo was taken from.

I also urge you to look at radiosonde data from the 2 closest stations each day and tie the data in with your observations. If you want, I'll post some lo-tech guidelines for how to do this, or maybe more.

We are just about done in this topic, and we can agree to disagree about contrails/chemtrails for now. You have asked me to suspend belief for a while and consider other views. Ok, and I ask the same of you. With your increasing knowledge of the workings of the atmosphere, have a go at interpreting what you observe in terms of what you know - that is, what has been measured by the Bureau (they're good guys) at radiosonde (upperair) stations around you.

Just to close...
It is just not possible to arbitrarily heap the air up in some place. The atmosphere is a fluid, and is more or less in dynamic equilibrium. Horizontally, there is a balance of these forces on a "parcel of air": pressure gradient force, the Coriolis force (because we are on a rotating rame of reference), centripetal force (due to curved movement, if there is any), and friction (near the ground). Any change in any of these (including any kind of heaping up or removal, which will affect the pressure gradient force) results in changes in the dynamic system that will bring it back into equilibrium.

Finally, a radiosonde programme is expensive to operate. These days, hydrogen filled balloons are used to lift the use-once-and-discard scientific package. The hydrogen is either supplied in bottles, or it can be generated (in the "Bomb Shed"!) with Aluminium (make sure it is pure!) and NaOH (caustic soda), or by the electrolysis of water. In the old days (1895?-1920?) steel wire tethered kites were used to lift the reusable scientific package. Here is a photo of one ready for launch from the good folks at NOAA. (Unknown location and date.)

That's the winch in the background with the wheel thing on top, and the drum of wire at shoulder height behind the guy on the left.

Ah! Those were the days. Hands-on observations using dangerous equipment.

[smashdracs]

I really appreciate the work you put in to these posts now Hector.

They are almost always a great and challenging read. I will have a reply in the German thread soon (arranging translators and reading and reading.....)

As you said earlier, check re-check and check again then post.... :)

[steve clougher]

we are 40km SE of Wodonga, with plenty of high hills (by Australian standards), but it is actually with reference to clouds that i have got probably my best altitude fixes, although with the 15-45 power telescope , you get a pretty good idea without other references

i've seen the radiosonde for gliders , from Wagga Wagga, but i don't think it has humidity, from memory

thanks again.......i look forward to more study, and to be honest, i hope you are proved right, and me wrong

[Hector]

I've just cobbled together a utility for analysing radiosonde (upper air) data to see if conditions at typical cruise altitude are suitable for contrails to be formed. I've called it Contrail Critical Temperature Calculator. As well as calculating the CCT, it makes an assessment of the persistence of contrails if they are formed.

The 3 NZ stations and 3 stations in southeast Australia are in the selection list, but data from any station will work with it.

It calculates the Contrail Critical Temperature for the altitudes F360, F370 and F380 which are the flight levels that the B737 and A320 jets use on the Auckland-Christchurch route over central New Zealand, and are probably typical cruise levels for transport jets of any type anywhere. The engine type for the calculation is high bypass.

There's some other contrail stuff there that may be of interest, but no photos.

Incidentally, I've checked the engine types fitted to the ANZ (B737 and A320) and QANTAS (B737). The B737s (both carriers) are all fitted with CFM56, and the A320s are fitted with MTU V2500 engines. Both of these are high bypass engines. I was under the mistaken impression until a few days ago that these aircraft had low bypass engines. This (hight/low bypass) makes only a small difference in the altitude of contrail formation - a few hundred metres.

[steve clougher]

terriffic, Hector, if we can get range/altitude accurate to within a few hundred metres, that will be pretty good

awesome work , your blood's worth bottling!

i'll get stuck into the altitude challenge

[Hector]

Due to issues apparently beyond my control I have had to change the name of the "Contrail Critical Temperature Calculator" page. It is now at http://www.freewebs.com/contraildiagnosis/contrailcalculator.htm

And while I have your attention I have put up a method (two, actually) for measuring the height of contrails using photogrammetry techniques and a bit if trigonometry. That page is at http://www.freewebs.com/contraildiagnosis/heightcalculator.htm

[steve clougher]

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i've sent for a price, but judging from the picture, it will be exxy.

probably a marine radar set, tilted, would achieve the same result.....much less accurate, but i don't think we're going to need terriffic precision

[steve clougher]

another product is from a Swiss firm called Vectronix, who make binoculars at 5-power, which incorporate a range-finder up to 10km. they also see in the dark, and when connected to a support system , they can relay messages on the screen,........ also, presumably , the possibility exists for a transmission of the image to the big screen in the bunker...........pretty handy-dandy

the parent company is Leica, so it will be exxy, but it would do our mission perfectly

there is a NZ agent

golly, it's scary googling around in the military suppliers sites! all that money going on super-elaborate ways to kill people!

[steve clougher]

Vectronix Vector 21 binoculars, with a night channel, retail for around 40,000 dollars

However, the Australian supplier won't sell to the public, they say, by choice, but there is also mention of stringent controls from the US military, over who gets to own these things

there are field glasses with rangefinders available for a few hundred, and rangefinders separate, for similar, but not with enough range

[Hector]

I admire the effort researching for off-the-shelf high-tech equipment for range finding. If that's the path to go, the next search will be for angle measuring equipment; theodolites. Major manufacturers are Kern, Zeiss, Wild and Leica. (Some models may even have builtin ragefinders!) A theodolite will be required to calculate the altitude from the range. The rangefinder will need to be mounted onto the scope of the theodolite, and zeroed in.

Is all this expense justified? Lower tech equipment may be at hand already.
See http://www.freewebs.com/contraildiagnosis/heightcalculator.htm for how it might be employed.

[steve clougher]

the angle may be measured with adequate accuracy , with something much cruder than a theodolite..........a 2-foot piece of wood attached to a verandah post with a wing nut, a plumb-bob and a protractor would do

or a cheap plastic sextant...........under $100 new

placing a friend along a baseline has a few drawbacks........chemtrail activity is not entirely predictable, sometimes more than other times........better if you can take data when the occasion arises

a marine radar set is not all that expensive, you would only need the smallest model, and these are available 2nd hand. i wonder if the aviation authorities would have any valid grounds for objection?

mind you, i'd love one of those Vector binocs