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About that black beam question...
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ruapaka



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:10 pm    Post Subject: About that black beam question...  

Better late than never Hector ... :-) .. not to worry.

I had to make a new topic/thread - the thread Hector requested (About those black beams ... https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5928#5928 ) has been locked - probably because it takes about 3 days to load on dial-up..

So ... to continue ...

In the 'Has anyone seen a large Unmarked, grey plane in our skies?' thread, I asked of Hector:

"As far as the 'shadow' lines/dark beams - I too have witnessed and photographed these. A question .... how come irregular shaped trails (curled, twisted etc) leave a straight 'shadow'? Is this possible Hector?"
https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5947#5947

As luck would have it I had copied two images to Flickr some time ago as I was going through some saved to disk stuff from an expired PC - anyway, Hector they are not good images - BUT if you look carefully (or less carefully re the science of the eye/brain) the line/shadow is visible, albeit faintly. The line was much more visible with the naked eye. I am happy my humble camera has managed to provide a record of what I saw and thought to be strange. The line/shadow begins at the 'hook' on the lower end of the trail. I am not certain about the time of day - I pretty sure it was early morning. (Note: There are 4 images in this set - only the first 2 images are applicable to this thread.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44694153@N00/sets/72157602042183363/

Also .... I uploaded some images to Flickr today to update folk on the skies over this way (will post a link in separate thread) ... one of those images was taken in Nelson on Monday ... I saw an irregular persistent trail with a line/shadow behind it .. The image does not show the line/shadow - it was very messy sky with strong glare - but very similar formation to the linked images.

Hector, what I have provided may not be enough for you to confidently assess and attempt to answer my question. Although I am not too sure I can supply any further info about the images, please try me.

I hope my linking to Flickr is ok - all that is needed is a yahoo ID. :)
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Hector



Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Wellington

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:48 pm    Post Subject:  

The link you gave to your images leads to this (after I logged in):
Flickr wrote:
This page is private.

Oops! You don't have permission to view this page.

You will have to change the viewing permissions to "the whole world" if you want to share the pictures to people who don't have an account there. I do, but I still don't have permission to view them.

While you're doing that, this trail is not straight
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0706/sts98plume_nasa_big.jpg
but there is a bit of it that is straight enough to cast a visible shadow when viewed from the place where the camera is located. An observer only needs to move a few hundred metres away (forward or back with the plume to the left or right) to not see the shadow; and move back (or forward), and see it again. In that sense "it's a kind of magic", but not when you understand what you are looking at - the geometry of the situation.

The image I posted from Nelson (in the "About those black beams ..." topic) has a contrail that is not straight (in the part that is visible in the photo), but it is still casting a shadow. The part of the contrail in line with the sun needs to be long enough to cast a visible shadow. "Long enough" depends on the haze conditions on the day.

These shadows in NZ are not as pronounced because the air here is not as polluted with particulates (smoke, dust, etc), and because we are in a maritime climate (as opposed to continental in the US or Europe). The air here originates over the ocean (mostly) rather than a neighboring industrial polluter.
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ruapaka



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:43 pm    Post Subject:  

Sorry about being blocked from viewing the images... I have sorted the permission thingy - try again.

Hector said:
Quote:
... there is a bit of it that is straight enough to cast a visible shadow when viewed from the place where the camera is located. ...


Hector, as you will see the trail in the image(s) does have a straight bit.
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Hector



Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Wellington

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:24 pm    Post Subject:  

Yes, I can see it in both photos; faintly. It looks like a shadow.

Do you know the date it was taken, and where from (approximately), and the view direction. It looks like it is directly under one of the flight routes, so that fact will help to cross check the location and view direction.
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