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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:24 am Post Subject: Chemtrails Over Hamilton 02/12/06 |
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Did anyone else see these yesterday morning? My wife first noticed them at about 0800. I took photos at 0845. They were still there at 1030 then the wind picked up a bit and they were gone by 1100. Can anyone help and explain what they might have been?
They were seen west of Hamilton heading south to north. I counted 6. Can't believe that they were airliners as there were too many of them very close together. Have uploaded photo to the gallery.
Will upload more later today. |
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smashdracs
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:44 pm Post Subject: |
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I got some pics of trails over wellington at about 2am this morning. When I got up today they sky was a complete chem-whiteout.
They were obviously spraying right throug the night here. |
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:42 pm Post Subject: |
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Everyone in my household has no energy today. What are we being sprayed with?
Talking to friends today, we are not the only ones feeling like this. Friends believe it's just the weather. They think I might be a little nutty... :roll: |
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Hector
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:27 pm Post Subject: |
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I saw a contrail on Saturday 2 Dec soon after midday. Track was west of Wellington and heading north. The plane turned 10 or 20 degrees west over about Porirua. The rail over that area dissipated quite quickly, but was persistent for several hours in the west and south of Wellington.
The sky was otherwise clear of any cloud except some low-topped cumulus over the eastern ranges.
I saw another early this morning, well to the west of Wellington.
My opinion: The contrail I saw yesterday, the ones seen from Hamilton on Saturday, and those observed during the night and this morning over Wellington were all normal jet engine exhaust condensation. The sky today (over Wellington, and possibly much of New Zealand) is now overcast with naturally occurring cirrus. There is a solar halo indicating the presence of cirro-stratus. This cloud has NOT been produced or generated by jet aircraft activity.
Myself and my family and neighbours are all feeling quite invigorated today. We have all been very industrious... lawns, garden, house maintenance, laundry, play-house for the kiddies, cooking... and there is still 3 hours of daylight, and even more in the south.
My opinion: There is no spraying by these aircraft.
treknut72, could you provide a link to the photos you uploaded to the Gallery. I can't see them in the "Recent" page.
smashdracs, could you upload your photos and give a link... I would like to see contrails illuminated by the moon. Interesting. What were the F-stop and shutter speed settings?
Thank you both.
You all may be interested to have a look that this page:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=17474
My opinion: that is not spraying either. It is normal jet engine exhaust condensation. |
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:00 am Post Subject: |
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pics of the chemtrails can be found at the following link http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/treknut72/my_photos
If it were one trail, I would be inclined to agree with you. Even two. But I counted six. That is just a little to coincidental for me. And they all look to be within minutes of each other.
One explination I guess is that the planes that left the trails were racing with each other. :D |
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Deano
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:30 pm Post Subject: |
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| Good work Treknut72 and welcome. Please ignore Hector, he is more than likely paid to be here. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that somethings not quite right with those trails. Keep looking up and if you can, try and get some pix of the aircraft that are dropping the lines. |
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:34 am Post Subject: |
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Cheers Deano, would've loved to catch a photo of the aircraft that did it.
And I guessed that about Hector from a few of the other posts he has left :-)
Last weekend was not the first time I have seen these trails, just the first time I had a camera. Am definatly becoming more aware of whats going on above my head. |
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jay_gee
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:28 pm Post Subject: |
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| Quote: | | Please ignore Hector, he is more than likely paid to be here. |
Ahhh, another conspiracy! But, why, exactly? Because he uses science to dispute your claims?
Got any proof for such an allegation? |
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jay_gee
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:53 pm Post Subject: |
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you're right jaygee, could be pollen. Then again.... I try to work with an open mind and tend to be a bit dubious of main stream media/science. Remember you are only told what they want you to hear. The rest you have to go looking for yourself. To many things are easily explained away and then we find later that we were mislead.
The only proof that I have is what I have seen so far and science doesn't explain it all. In the same token do you have proof that it's wrong. Works both ways on that arguement. :-) |
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Deano
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:14 pm Post Subject: |
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| Quote: |
Ahhh, another conspiracy! But, why, exactly? Because he uses science to dispute your claims?
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No not really. Hector offers no valid explaination for multiple chemtrails or for that matter chemtrails with A-B cut points, completely impossible unless the aircraft is switching off its engines in mid air. |
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jay_gee
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:45 am Post Subject: |
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| Deano wrote: | | Quote: |
Ahhh, another conspiracy! But, why, exactly? Because he uses science to dispute your claims?
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No not really. Hector offers no valid explaination for multiple chemtrails or for that matter chemtrails with A-B cut points, completely impossible unless the aircraft is switching off its engines in mid air. |
He has....
| Quote: | | ..the intermittent appearance of contrails is the response to changes in the critical temperature along the flight path because of changes in RH. |
...which you dismissed, despite it making perfect sense, and obeying some relatively simple physical laws.
But the point stands: I fail to see how offering a series of valid scientific explanations for something you deem to be part of some sort of wider conspiracy makes Hector, by default, part of that conspiracy. What proof, other than the fact that he sees no evidence for chemtrails, do you have that he is paid by ... whoever ... to come onto these forums to discredit your theories? [/quote] |
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Deano
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 741
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:03 pm Post Subject: |
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THIS...
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He has....
Quote:
..the intermittent appearance of contrails is the response to changes in the critical temperature along the flight path because of changes in RH.
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DOES NOT EXPLAIN THIS...
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Hector offers no valid explaination for multiple chemtrails or for that matter chemtrails with A-B cut points, completely impossible unless the aircraft is switching off its engines in mid air.
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Changes in humidity along the flight path would result in thinning and patchy contrails, not a sudden thick and well defined 'cut'. It appears you are avoiding the questions as well. Sure you're not on the payroll as well... 8) |
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Hector
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:00 pm Post Subject: |
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Thank you, jaygee, for your comments.
You all should by now be familar with the basic thermodynamics of the formation of jet engine exhaust condenstation.
Contrails either will be formed or not depending on the critical temperature for contrails, and the ambient air temperature at flight level.
The critical temperature depends on:
1) The jet engine type and the power setting. This determines the Contrail Factor. For a plane in cruise this (the exhaust temperature and the water vapour concentration) is constant.
2) The pressure at flight level. This is constant if the plane is flying level; not ascending or descending.
3) The Relative humidity. This can change a lot over short distances depending on the amount of water vapour present as evidenced by the appearance of cirrus cloud sometimes.
This means that the critical temperature for the formation of contrails can change by a few degrees over short distances, too.
I have explained off/on/off/on (intermittent) contrails before in another thread.
Here it is agin in different, simpler words.
The important thing to understand about the formation of contrails is that if the ambient temperature at flight level is less than the critical temperature (CT) they WILL form, and if the ambient temperature is greater than CT then contrails will NOT form.
This is an OFF/ON matter - there is no in between. This is not about transient versus persistent contrails. This is about forming AT ALL or NOT.
So, if the plane is flying along a level where the ambient temperature is above/below/above/below, etc, CT then the contrail will not form / form / not form / form, etc, in an off/on/off/on, etc, manner. It exactly DOES result in, as Deano says, "a sudden thick and well defined 'cut'".
Multiple contrails are formed by ... um, yes ... multiple jet air planes.
Contrails will move off the fixed flight vector by the wind, and they may remain intact and coherent. This is explained by John Anderson (I suppose)
in the discussion accompanying the excellent flight vector map which is linked off the home page of this web site.
My opinion is that this is what was happening west of Hamilton (where there are several flight vectors converging on Auckland) last weekend.
The photos put up by treknut72 show several resonably fresh contrails along with some that are probably several hours old, and some in between. I doubt that they all originated on the same flight vector. Obviously, there was more than one plane and probably belonging to different airlines.
No, 'they' are NOT paying me to post here.
Yes, keep looking up, THINK about and appreciate what you're observing, and try to keep your imagination from running away with your rationality. |
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:36 am Post Subject: |
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| I've found in the past there's not much point, Hector. They'll still believe there's some kind of conspiracy, when the only conspiracy there is, is the one to make money from "chemtrails." |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:52 am Post Subject: |
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| Lew Archer wrote: | | is the one to make money from "chemtrails." |
Excuse me Lew, but who on this forum is 'making money from "chemtrails"?' |
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:27 pm Post Subject: |
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Where did I imply this site particularly?
I'd like you to point that out. |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:03 pm Post Subject: |
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Much like the chemtrail people, you're reading too much into it.
BTW, could we please have an editing function? |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:03 pm Post Subject: |
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| Lew Archer wrote: | | BTW, could we please have an editing function? |
The absence of an editing function is deliberate - we prefer that posters take care to preview posts before submitting and to exercise careful consideration before committing their opinions to writing. If there are factual errors, errors in URLs for example, or double posts, forum members can forward an edit request to the administrator. |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:06 pm Post Subject: |
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| Lew, perhaps you could provide some URLs of websites that you regard as money making exercises milking the chemtrail issue... |
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:40 pm Post Subject: |
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Yup, certainly I'll have a look. I should have been more specific since it was the original books I was aiming the comment at more.
Re editing: No worries. I just want to go back and add smilies from time to time to take the edge off of replies. I'm a bit blunt at times. ;) |
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jay_gee
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:55 am Post Subject: |
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| Lew Archer wrote: | | I've found in the past there's not much point, Hector. They'll still believe there's some kind of conspiracy, when the only conspiracy there is, is the one to make money from "chemtrails." |
:roll:
It could be a conspiracy either way, but why all the secrecy when the appropriate departments are asked? Commercial sensitivity is just the PC phrase for WIGHTWASH/COVERUP. There is something amiss or the powers that be would tell us about it. As I have already said, I don't go for the mainstream crap that "they" want us to accept. I do look for all the relevant info and make my own mind up.
And by debuncking the "conspiricy" you are only adding more fuel to the fire as we set out to prove you wrong
As for the trails themselves, I watched the other day as the "contrails" spread out to form a high layer of hazy cloud. What, in the exhaust of planes, does that? or is it just the cows farting again? :lol: |
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:10 am Post Subject: |
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What appropriate departments? The Ministry for Cover Ups and Chemtrails?
There's no secrecy because there's nothing to keep secret. They're telling you there's nothing because...there's nothing! |
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treknut72
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Hamilton, NZ
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:09 am Post Subject: |
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And for years the population was told that there was no link between smoking and cancer even though the cover up was obvious. So yes, I guess I am referring to the Ministry for Cover Ups.
And how would you know there was nothing to be kept secret if you're not told, unless of course you're (not you personally) in on the secret and therefore would be telling everyone......
| Quote: | | There's no secrecy because there's nothing to keep secret. They're telling you there's nothing because...there's nothing! |
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jay_gee
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:33 am Post Subject: |
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| treknut72 wrote: | | As for the trails themselves, I watched the other day as the "contrails" spread out to form a high layer of hazy cloud. What, in the exhaust of planes, does that? |
It's nothing "in the exhaust" of the planes, it's the water vapour in the air itself taking on a more cloud-like appearance as the plane passes through it.
Unless clouds are some sort of conspiracy as well? |
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Lew Archer
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:58 am Post Subject: |
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| treknut72 wrote: | And for years the population was told that there was no link between smoking and cancer even though the cover up was obvious. So yes, I guess I am referring to the Ministry for Cover Ups.
And how would you know there was nothing to be kept secret if you're not told, unless of course you're (not you personally) in on the secret and therefore would be telling everyone......
| Quote: | | There's no secrecy because there's nothing to keep secret. They're telling you there's nothing because...there's nothing! |
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Gee, that was such a good retort.
:roll: |
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roofdoggy
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Orcland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:10 am Post Subject: trolls |
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my 10 cents....
the best thing to do with trolls is ignore them.
you know who they are, they spend large amounts of time on boards for only one reason, to waste your time.
spot them early and avoid long winded posts refuting thier re-regurgitated one-liners,
i think it was a quote from old christ himself "don't place pearls before swine"
they'll just end up taking all your time.
jaygeesus to hec! |
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