Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:09 pm Post Subject: Lets make a stand on Paliament, collectively!!!
I rekon that if everyone that is as passionate as I am about chemtrails, should gather and collate all thier chemtrail related evidence ie photos documents etc and make it known in front of paliament, i mean its only gonna get worse, why not at least just get it out there that its going on...i get so worked up about this kind of thing and i thought maybe if we collectively got as many of us as we can, and just make one heck of a stand in front of parliament...
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:50 pm Post Subject: Chemtrails and Sue from the Greens
Chemtrails and Sue from the Greens
If chemtrails are a falalcy as Lew seems to think so then why did the greens not say that to me when i asked them about it.
I have been in contact with Sue from greens and she says shes had loads of people offering her evidence and video/pics etc, she did not state at any time in our correspondence that the greens considered chemtrails as untrue.
She simply said that they didnt have time right now to address the issue and that they were waiting for the public to make it an issue before they will adress it in parliament. Basically she suggested to me that we the public take a stand and have a march or partition outside parliament, and she also said they were very busy with other issues of pollution and environment but that she was keen to see more public awareness first before they will touch it. i thought it was an odd letter from her.
It seemed to suggest to me that basically they cant touch it until there is more public awareness, because its something they would get in trouble for bringing up (if u know what i mean) but if the public were already knowlegable about chemtrails then they the greens would have an excuse to bring it up in parliament as it would already be public knowlege.
Know what im getting at here, its a catch 22, the greens know about it, govt knows about it, (the UN had to ask Helen Clark if they could do it in NZ for starters) but it wont get a mention until the public demands it !!! until then its taboo.... SO
We need to organize as suggested at the top of this thread some kind of march and petition with banners etc and a public talk on the matter outside parliament !!! LETS DO IT ..!!!
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:18 pm Post Subject: no link
theres no link to that information, if that information existed somewhere in the public domain then that would be an admission of involvement and guilt by the UN. I said that comment as simply my opinion that she would have to have been consulted about it, due to the fact that countries that recently became a part of the UN had chemtrails sighted within days of official charter with the UN, when previously they did not. This is info ive read some time back, i can try and find the origonal links, would take some time though... cant even remember the countries exactly but if ya look up recent additions to the Un in the last 7 years should be able to find the reference and google it..... essentially people who have witnessed chemtrails during passage of commerical flights have stated that chemtrails where only visable over UN countries, and there is info on the net that suggests this is a UN operation, or at least party run and sanctioned by the UN or some body of it. Perhaps i should have said "in my opinion Helen would have been notified by the UN prior to commencing operations in NZ", or words to that effect, cheers
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:26 pm Post Subject: apparently there are no chemtrails in china
apparently there are no chemtrails in china, if this is true then that would be a strong indication of Certain groups of countires been the target... this is the scenario as i have seen it...
Basically all UN countries are involved in this operation, Operation Clover Leaf, Operation Red Sky, Operation Rain Dance as some of them are called in different formats. As with all military operations, it is done with the strategy of "kill as many birds as possible with the one stone", in other words do as much and as many different things you can with the same technology or operation within the limits of that operations parameters and constraints. So you have reflective ozone reducing operations as the main cover story with weather manipulation testing as well as radar mapping and biological testing, mass steralization agents for example (still likely in testing, vaccines are preferred method for covert sterilization of 3rd world countries) ...basically a whole host of operations
Tmagine: If you've got hundreds of these white tanker planes (often C-130) flying around the world emitting a mix of substances and particles then it would make sense to equip it with all kinds of equipment and tests and different mixes of mettalic particles/biological agents and preserving/gelling agents so serve a variety of purposes... so what happens hypothetically?
When a country joins the UN, they are approached and explained about the chemtrails operation... the dignitary (Helen for example) and basically anyone else in parliament or military who questions whats going on will get fed the same story... which is that global warming is WAY WAY worse than admitted in main stream media and that a desperate situation has called for desperate measures and therefore there is a global operation to seed micro particles of alluminium into the atmosphere and reflect back 1 or 2% of the suns rays back into space, as per US patents (google it) blah blah blah
Then the person is told that due to the situation been so critical there was no time to adjust the public to this idea and it would have to remain a secret as the public would never accept the proposal due to the likely alarming health effects on the population of microfine metals like barium and aluminium in the air we breathe etc etc
they would also be told that secrecy is of utmost importance also so as not to
cause world wide panic and economic meltdown, and that regardless of weather they agree with the issue they must not talk of it, as there would be dire consequences for that person politically, financially or other threats.
There must be some in NZ parliament or other less known more powerful people in NZ who know of the chemtrail adgenda or at least have been given the cover story, the "reflect the suns rays" tale...
So is it true? Some evidence suggests that sunspots and sun cycles are actually responsible for the bulk of the global warming effect and that it may be a general effect in the solar system even, (and that warming as partly attributable to greenhouse gases but to a lesser extent than the suns effect) its possible the military is genuinely afraid of this warming, trouble is all this info is compartmentalized and not shared well between agencies and so parhaps very few know the real intent behind the use of chemtrials? within the military or govts or UN.
Its been suggested recently by some scientists that the sun itself has in fact had a pole shift and that that is affecting all systems of the earth and therefore the weather.
Annother important part of chemtail technology may be the catalyst effect microparticles of metal have on human biochemistry, for example making our bodies more efficient antennas / receivers of frequencies and cause a host of health effects that may be desirable to a facist global dictatorship wishing to reduce the world population to a managable amount, say 10-20% of current population.
Does this all sound far fetched? Not once youve watched this documentary:
...and then considered that over-poplulation is more of a concern to the UN than stopping AIDS or saving 3rd world countries, the UN... all talk and no action!
But they did take action, (actually it was partly Henry Kissengers idea), they implemented a massive vaccination campaign in the 3rd world.... SO
now where is the worlds worst AIDS?
...3rd world countries!, and hey as explained in the video above...
HIV has been found as a 'contaminant' in vaccines shipped to the third world, AND steralization vaccines have been developed and tested for decades, all documented...anyway ive gone on a tangent, but chemtrails may be a part of that adgenda you see because the 1918 flu pandemic was supposedly as double-wammy type of synthetic virus that was developed, the first part of it is a Stage 1: General immune suppressant (aluminium and barium particles breathed in to our lungs dumped from planes is an ideal choice), this could also have a biological component... then
Stage 2: Release of pnemonia/influenza component into pockets of population - A highly potentated form of influenza designed to attack exactly the same parts of the body that the first part has already weakened... see where im going with this?
....chemtrails.... general respratory / airways / lung and immune suppressant effect..stage 1... plus maybey a biological agent or par tof a DNA sequence
- Introduction of more immune suppressing vaccines, every year and more excuses for them.. and poor science to back them... (MenB in NZ)
general rule, introduce during natural decline of disease rates after a peak then praise vaccine for declining rates of disease.
And stage twos conclusion is a massive worldwide compulsory 'birdflu' vaccine given to everyone... this will be the final stage of this population culling exercise, the bird flu vaccine will be infected with live bird flu itself to help spread the illness... and also some vaccines (maybey one in 3) will be designed to kill the person within a short time and thus blame it on the birdflu (as it will be fast acting also)
Remember the Pandemic Prepardness bill? In it there is the ability to quarantine and force vaccinate the entire population of NZ, and gee the same laws in australia now too and USA and canada.. and hey its in every UN country this kind of implementation of laws to restrict heath and access to medicines, vaccinate us all and keep us all scared of the boogeyman, notice a pattern forming?...
of course this is all just speculation, i dont mean it to sound so gloomy, its just possibilities based on info received by my brain, you decide fer yerself like...
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:51 pm Post Subject: also
Also heres the info on the spanish flu been a vaccine induced or mitigated agent, (which has incidentally been recognized as a type of birdflu also):
Chapter Two: The 1918 Spanish Influenza was a vaccine-induced disease caused by extreme body poisoning from the conglomeration of many different vaccines.
http://whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html
Nurse during 1918 pandemic outbreak claims that vaccines were killing people, and that her and many others who didnt get the vaccines that were mandated
(after the soliders returned from war) were perfectly healthy, supposedly this disease may have been a synthetic agent designed as a double wammy that either deliberatley or accidentally was seeded into the population via vaccines to soliders and then to the general population directly after that.. reminds me of gulf war syndrome (men who hadnt even fought were getting sick)...
and this one:
In 1948 Heinrich Mueller, the former head of the Gestapo, told his CIA interrogator that the most devastating plague in human history was man-made
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/makowspanishflu1918manmade02dec06.shtml
I am currently reading Vaccine A by Gary Matsumoto. It is quite an eye opener with regard to some of the damages done by vaccines and in particular certain ingredients which I may talk on when I finish it.
That (what elevate posted) may be true, partially true, or not. We can argue this way and that, and opine all we like, but the discussion will not actually advance without references to accessable documents, or reports from people who are involved in the alleged spray operations in NZ, and who are prepared to stump up with some facts. ... or find a white C-130 parked on an apron somewhere, or taxiing into a hangar.
Meanwhile, what we can do is report observations AND back them up with some reserach. By that I mean
(1) determine if the contrail (or whatever) is along an Airways flight vector, or could have been before wind carried it off,
(2) determine if contrails are possible on the day and at that location.
There are tools and information to do both of these. Some people have devoted many hours of pains-taking effort to develop these, publish them, explain how they work and how to use them. It may be necessary to work collectively, to collaberate; flight data and the flight vector map, airline timetables and schedules, photos, meteorology.
We should get past reporting along the lines of "heavy spray ops again today". If we want the public at large or people in a position to do something to take any notice, then we need to be a lot more rigorous about our observations AND the diagnosis of them using the tools available.
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:56 pm Post Subject: ya
ya your right on there, perhaps we need some kind of collective mailing list or some easy way to share this info and collect sightings data online in a wiki type setup? a database where we can report location, wind direction etc and be able to accurately plot onto a online map...
Ive been checking the flight vector map and perhaps im not familiar with it yet but it seems to me that the detail of flightpaths over wellington harbour for example may not be sufficient to prove conclusively if a flight is commercial or not...
the flightpaths that reach wellington airport or go past wellington to Nelson from northland for example may not be tricky to rule out commercial flights...
It might be obvious to us when we see two planes close together laying trails over mt victoria north-south but someone else could argue that its a northland-nelson flightpath... me mates have plotted a few that certainly dont look like normal flights at all but its tricky... just thinking about it now... the commercial flights are very obvious as they come down very low over the harbour and then land, the chemtrail planes always carry on southward (for example) over cook strait, there only appears to be one flightpath that would come close to those flights and thats the one to Nelson, which doesnt fly often enough and should be further out east and not over the harbour.... just some thoughts
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 83
Location: wellington
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:38 pm Post Subject:
Quote:
apparently there are no chemtrails in china, if this is true then that would be a strong indication of Certain groups of countires been the target... this is the scenario as i have seen it...
Basically all UN countries are involved in this operation
You're contradicting yourself there. You say China doesn't have chemtrails, but that all UN countries (ie. just about the whole world) is involved.
So which is it?
And why would China be exempt from the UN chemtrail conspiracy?
Where did you get the information that there are no chemtrails in China?
There certainly are contrails there, and there have been for a long time...
A Trip to the Yalu
www.cottonpickers.org/atripto.htm
"Contrails over North Korea/China start to form at about 28000 feet and quit forming at about 34000 feet in the late fall and winter time. ..."
This site is the obvious coordination centre, particularly if there was a chat-room facility for that purpose.
Windows Messenger could be utilised, or any of the other messaging transports, Google, etc.
Off the 'net and in the field, SMS on cellphones could also be a means of coordinating a collaboration.
I doubt you will get contrails on a Wellington-Nelson flight - the altitude of the cold air required is never reached. East-west cloud forms are generated by mountain wave activity around here. You need to be careful to properly identify what you are looking at. There was a good, thick example of one earlier this evening.
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 999
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:54 pm Post Subject:
3 of us here on this forum who live in Wellington are already collaborating and doing exactly what your suggesting, bar using this site as the coordination point.
We basically sms each other daily and all keep a watch on the sky from wherever we are. On heavy trail days we will all be out filming if we are able to.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:12 am Post Subject:
It's also probably worth mentioning Flight Explorer here again. You can purchase a subscription a month at a time for a certain number of hours. If you see what you think is an anomalous plane on an anomalous flight path, you can log on in virtually real time and should be able to immediately identify what the plane is, where it has come from and where it is going and see its flight vector and compare it with our flight vector map...
If the plane isn't on Flight Explorer at that time, then it's not an official/normal commercial or otherwise/legitimate plane and cannot be reasonably explained. In the US, military traffic is not shown on FE. However our observations in recent times and the observations of info4, who has been watching FE for months now, confirms that NZ military traffic is routinely included in the observable flight data.
Would you agree, Hector (remember that you were the first one to alert us to the fact that FE data was available for NZ), that Flight Explorer is a pretty definitive corroboration - one way or the other - of whether there are anomalous planes or activity in the skies at any given time? And that if the plane is not included in the FE data, there must be some explaining to do?
How we wish it were that simple, Melody, and I think if reason were to prevail it probably would be.
The problem is that there are those who are advancing one or more of the following...
(1) The 'sprayers' are masquerading as commercial jets on the estabished flight routes,
(2) The commercial airlines are in kahoots with the 'sprayers' and 'laying down the chems' for them,
(3) The 'sprayers', by some clever application of practical meteorology, are operating or NOT operating in order to maintain confusion and continue the subterfuge.
(4) ... there may be other theories; someone else can fill out the list.
Then there are the supposed motives, and off-shoot theories involving exotic technologies for unknown purposes, and so on.
Something more than FE and reasoned argument are required to shorten the very long legs of these questionable ideas.
I had drafted more than this and decided not to post it all. I'm in a minority here and don't wish to antagonise unduely; there's drama enough at this time of year.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:45 pm Post Subject:
Hector wrote:
Something more than FE and reasoned argument are required to shorten the very long legs of these questionable ideas.
I agree, this is certainly a complication in respect of anything conclusive that Flight Explorer can show from actual planes observed in the sky that would seem to be documented in the FE data at the same time, and as you have stated, are open to much speculation and theory.
However, the presence of a plane leaving contrails (perhaps in anomalous or dubious conditions and on an anomalous flight path) juxtaposed against a distinct absence of flight data to corroborate the presence of the physically observed craft in Flight Explorer would surely be much more interesting and indeed conclusive, don't you think?
If that were to happen, what could we reasonably assume from it?
I doubt you will get contrails on a Wellington-Nelson flight
Not sure if everybody is clear on this. There are no flights that LAND at Nelson, they only fly over it en route to Christchurch from Auckland. No jet powered commercial traffic that is.
there only appears to be one flightpath that would come close to those flights and thats the one to Nelson, which doesnt fly often enough and should be further out east and not over the harbour.... just some thoughts
Elevate
As said before (maybe be picky here but it is over Nelson). The area over Nelson is one of the busiest in NZ from what I have seen.
There are many flights daily to and from Auckland and Christchurch
Quote:
the flight paths that reach Wellington airport or go past Wellington to Nelson from Northland for example may not be tricky to rule out commercial flights...
The flights that overfly Wellington (southbound) are likely to be Rotorua to Christchurch or maybe an International flight from somewhere to the north of NZ that is direct to Christchurch. These flight do fly over Wellington but are infrequent.
If that were to happen, what could we reasonably assume from it?
OK, there are several scenarios there...
(1) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, no contrail, on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has been excluded from the FE data stream.
You may want to ask CAA about the clandestine flight.
(2) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, no contrail, NOT on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has been excluded from the FE data stream, and on some non-point-A-to-B mission.
You may want to ask CAA about the clandestine flight to nowhere.
(3) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, HAS a contrail (in contrail conditions), on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has been excluded from the FE data stream, and the jet engines are doing what they WILL do.
You may want to ask CAA about the clandestine flight (but the contrail is irrelevant in this case).
(4) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, HAS a contrail (in NON-contrail conditions), on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has excluded from the FE data stream, and the 'contrail' is suspicious.
Ask CAA about it: clandestine, on a flight route, emitting some visible substance (and it's NOT jet engine exhaust).
(5) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, HAS a contrail (in contrail conditions), NOT on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has been excluded from the FE data stream, and the jet engines are doing what they WILL do, and it's on some non-point-A-to-B mission.
You may want to ask CAA about it: clandestine flight to nowhere (but the contrail is irrelevant in this case).
(6) If an aircraft is observed in the sky, HAS a contrail (in NON-contrail conditions), NOT on a flight route, and there is NO blip for it in FE;
then conclude that the flight has excluded from the FE data stream, and it's on some non-point-A-to-B mission, and the 'contrail' is suspicious.
Ask CAA about it: clandestine flight to nowhere AND emitting some visible substance which is NOT jet engine exhaust.
By 'No blip' in FE, I mean there is either NO record at all in FE, no flight number, or a flight number that doesn't look like a bona fide commercial flight. I doubt that flights by aircraft of these sizes and capable of these altitudes can be completely clandestine. At some time the aircraft will need to traverse controlled air space and make itself known to air traffic controllers. Someone with airline experience (info4?) might like to comment on that.
'Ask CAA' means question whatever might be an appropriate authority that should be concerned and has the power to invistigate further.
'Question' means send a document containing all the information that leads you to your conclusion: FE data (or its absence, and screen-shots), position data (including date, times, locations, headings, altitudes, specific behaviour (turns, etc)), photos, video, and the meteorological analysis (if 'contrails' are involved).
Include a request for information, an official investigation and an explanation. Government organistations must respond in a reasonable time to requests for specific information (if it exists, and you can't go fishing) under the provisions of the Official Information Act; you don't have to explicitly cite the Act, but it does no harm to do so to get a responce of some sort.
All this is a BIG ask for a private individual workling alone, no matter how well tooled up he/she may be. So, collaboration.
Public awareness is not really required. If there is something wrong going on (4 or 6 above), document it, confront an authority about it, and ask for more information and an explanation.
