Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:54 am Post Subject: first post from skywatchers nelson
hi there from the three of us in nelson. we are watching the skys and are pleased that there are others watching too. we will keep you posted as to what we see here. this week in nelson the first two days of the week were heavyish, although we have all noticed the change in density of the emissions this week, lighter, disperses very quickly, but frequent flyovers. they tend to start here in the afternoon, it is a beautiful day today i hope they let us have the blue sky today. cheers, we will keep in touch D
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:21 am Post Subject:
Welcome Skywatchers,
Our first group sign-on - as far as we know. :shock:
Ah yes Nelson, a real 'hotbed' of sky activity. When we passed through Nelson last year we were amazed how hazy the sky was. The few locals that we did manage to question did not seem to be aware of the condition of their skies...
Here's a pic we took in the area at that time, I'm afraid that I can't remember where we took it from, you'll probably recognise the location - is that Nelson in the background?
Quote:
it is a beautiful day today i hope they let us have the blue sky today
In this regard the Clifford Carnicom DVD is a real eye opener, what has happened to the skies above New Mexico is truly appalling. The white sky effect due to aircraft pollution is becoming a major world problem with dire implications for global warming, global climate, plant and animal life and quality of life for all of us. From BBC News 2nd March this year:
Quote:
Telescopes 'Worthless' by 2050 due to Climate Change and Contrails
Ground-based astronomy could be impossible in 40 years because of pollution from aircraft exhaust trails and climate change, an expert says....
Now one reason that you see a lot of trails is that Nelson is a waypoint for domestic aircraft on the way to Christchurch from Auckland, many flights every day. An Air NZ pilot told us that craft from Auckland are directed to fly over New Plymouth, then over Nelson, then on to ChCh. You would not normally see too many northbound flights, as the route is apparently from ChCh, over Wellington, over Ohura, then on to Auckland. International flights are not so common of course over your city, however you may see Aircraft passing over en route to and from Brisbane and Sydney to Wellington. Other flights on approach to Wellington through Cook Strait may also drift over your way.
Some time in the future we will have maps showing up-to-date New Zealand domestic and international aircraft vectors on this site for all to refer to. These are being prepared at this time.
High flying jet aircraft never used to create Persistent Contrails (PTs) as much as they do now. PTs used to be relatively uncommon and seasonal, there is no doubt about this. Now Commercial jet aircraft are likely to create PTs at any time of the year and in meteorological conditions that once they would not have formed at all. It is a worldwide phenomenon. Science would have it that the reason for this is because of the more efficient and cleaner burning design of the modern jet engine, though this explanation is by no means accepted by all scientists and as a complete explanation we ourselves regard it as somewhat dubious. In due course we will be presenting our own research findings on Mysterious New Zealand. In the meantime a search of the forum archives will uncover many interesting threads on the subject.
Here's a good example of a Contrail pic from one of our contributors, taken from Nelson airport on the 2nd of April 2003 showing a rapidly dissipating Contrail alongside a Persistent Contrail, both South-bound, I believe:
A crop of above:
Then there are the mysterious Contrails commonly referred to as Chemtrails. These are the ones that officially don’t exist. The proliferation of PTs from commercial aircraft has greatly confused the issue. Also creating confusion is the unfortunate habit of many observers to label all PTs as Chemtrails. It would greatly aid your own credibility to remember that some PTs are Chemtrails – but not all. Being able to differentiate is the trick.
In your region and in the surrounding regions of Marlborough and Golden Bay much strange aerial activity has been observed and, once again, you will find mention of this in the forum archives. In a general sense, look out for parallel lines of spreading PTs or triangular, circular or other patterns that do not reflect normal commercial traffic. Some research into commercial timetables would greatly assist here – together with the above mentioned maps (when they are published). An often-mentioned anomaly associated with Chemtrails is a sort of epidemic of health problems in a region, from folks just feeling ‘off colour’ to debilitating influenza-like illness (flu that isn’t flu). Many individuals also report a bitter chemical-like taste in the mouth. And there is much more. You will find the Betty Rowe interview of interest perhaps....
Pic of trails from Blenheim airport. Note how the trails converge as though all 4 aircraft were heading for a common destination...
Pic of Parallel trails from near Blenheim. The day started with a clear blue sky, just a few scattered Cumuli to the Northwest, then the aircraft, back and forth all day, regular as clockwork. Long before days end the sky was completely white. We couldn't get any of the locals to show any interest...
I hope this all helps Skywatchers. We look forward to reading your dispatches...
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:37 am Post Subject: Hotspot indeed
i come from Nelson and am based elsewhere in the country, and have noticed that the skies over nelson are heavily targeted...its so sad....when im back for the summer holidays ill be sure to get a camera and take photos of the skies....
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Wellington NZ
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:15 pm Post Subject:
I used to live 25 minutes from Nelson in Rai Valley. That area gets thoroughly dealt to chemtrail wise. Myself and a friend have begun plottting some of the observed flight paths onto an aeronautical map of the Upper Sth Island/Lower North Island region.
Rai Valley used to see (And still does) constant Nth and Sth flyovers of which I have many photos. I also photographed east and west trails from this area.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:16 pm Post Subject:
Hi Smash,
Quote:
I used to live 25 minutes from Nelson in Rai Valley. That area gets thoroughly dealt to chemtrail wise. Myself and a friend have begun plottting some of the observed flight paths onto an aeronautical map of the Upper Sth Island/Lower North Island region.
Rai Valley used to see (And still does) constant Nth and Sth flyovers of which I have many photos. I also photographed east and west trails from this area.
We've spent a bit of time in the Rai Valley, beautiful place, we even had a meal in the local pub. :shock:
Yes, those West/East PTs, we photographed a number of them, they seemed very anomalous to us at the time and couldn't imagine where they were going.
Since then we have learned that some flights en route to Wellington circle through Cook Strait and perhaps drift over Nelson/Marlborough way. However, I would not imagine that they were high enough at that stage to form any form of Contrail...
For your information and as an aid to figuring out what is normal traffic and what is anomalous, here are the general guidelines for aircraft descent rates:
Rule of thumb for international flights, top of descent is at 35000 ft and 110 miles out, with a 300 ft drop in altitude for every 1 mile.
Domestic flights are usually 25000 ft at 50 miles and a steeper descent.
It would be very interesting to view your map when complete and I imagine the map we are working on of NZ International and Domestic vectors would be useful to you. It's taking some time unfortunately as we are in the hands of others...
What do you mean by this? Are you saying that the orchards are specifically targeted?
yeah, my thoughts are that maybe they are targeting the orchards...and perhaps targeting the 'organic' ones too, in my opinion i believe that all the organic produce of Nelson is subtly being sabotaged....but thats just my opinion though...
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:35 pm Post Subject:
Interesting concept anTi-PowEr,
Quote:
yeah, my thoughts are that maybe they are targeting the orchards...and perhaps targeting the 'organic' ones too, in my opinion i believe that all the organic produce of Nelson is subtly being sabotaged....but thats just my opinion though...
My own opinion is that the only 'targeting' in Nelson/Marlborough is from the spray-drift from non-organic horticulture and that's more careless than deliberate...
This whole concept of trails targeting people is a somewhat contentious one. To prove it you would have to show motive and effect. It is very understandable that people who suffer health effects and perceive an association with heavy incidence of trails, plus see how aviation induced cirrus obfuscates the sky (we've seen this happen in that region - and it's dramatic) feel that they are being deliberately targeted. I cannot, however, after years of research find a plausible motive for all this being done deliberately. Now I know that there are some forum members that would disagree with me, and they may be right, but my feelings are that any disadvantage to humans and the environment is a side effect and coincidental to the existence of both Chemtrails and Persistent Contrails which I see as separate issues.
If you or anyone has another take on this issue I'd be interested to hear it...
We are all blatant targets in my opinion, the thing that gets me is that greenpeace and all other organisations like them are failing to see the issue at hand...they dont even wanna know about it...WHY do they have no explanation about whats going on here, i thought they were all about protecting the environment...well sure enough they are failing miserably in that department...i get so angry X/
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:46 pm Post Subject:
Hi again anTi-PowEr,
Quote:
We are all blatant targets in my opinion,
If we are targets, then it is due to indifference, a lack of caring and to expediency. The Painted Apple Moth spraying is a case in point. Despite the profound effect the spray had on the health of many, officials responsible for the spraying were unrepentant and defiant and in denial. From memory, they even refused to divulge the actual components of the spray. They were out to get that moth and spraying the moth (and 100s of thousands of people) was the easiest and most cost effective way to do it. Alternatives were costly and time-consuming, expediency... On a planetary scale it was a small thing, but some of the stuff that is happening in our skies and to our environment is not small (and I'm not refering to Chemtrails, though that's part of it) and may have consequences that destroy our way of life , as we know it, forever...
Quote:
the thing that gets me is that greenpeace and all other organisations like them are failing to see the issue at hand...they dont even wanna know about it...WHY do they have no explanation about whats going on here, i thought they were all about protecting the environment...well sure enough they are failing miserably in that department...
We have discussed the non-involvement of the gutless Greens and Greenpeace before. Feel free to add more. See this thread:
Good. The trick is to use the anger, it is the emotional force that leads to action, and avoid the 'dark side' of hatred which leads to powerlessness and suffering. :(
yeah fully....thanks john...and Melody...that sounds awful...are they joking? theres no way they could possibly get away with that SURELY...sounds sooooo bad!
Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:07 am Post Subject: ???
Hi from Nelson
Wanted to share an interesting thing I saw a couple of days ago. (please excuse my non technical descriptions)
We had nice big 'fluffy ' white clouds passing from a north-west direction with a lovely blue sky.
After a while a bank of whispy non descript "cloud" started to appear from the horizon in the same direction.
When I looked at the 'fluffies' passing in front of the sun, my sunglasses 8) filtered out alot of glare and I was able to see the light refracting through the clouds, they were full of rainbows :D, but when the wispy "cloud passed the same place, hello.... no rainbows. If they were not clouds full of water vapour, what were they????????
I would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts.
... and on Google
Try a search for _clouds +"optical phenomena"_
There are about 63,700 pages on this subject!
Some clouds are composed of water droplets, and some of ice crystals of various shapes. They all reflect and refract sunlight (and moonlight) in different ways.
