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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:24 am Post Subject: Chemtrails and product quantities
Hi all from Taranaki, i have noticed these trails for a long time now and have been videotaping them being formed many miles accross within seconds!
I took my children to Brooklands zoo here yesterday, and while everyone was going about their business all i could see was a set of trails being made in the distance, but right above us was a real biter the only trail for miles but was so unusual in shape i had to laugh because they were all playing and looking at animals and i am staring up at the sky looking at his formation thinking "why has'nt anyone else noticed?"
Can anyone help with this, how much product would they need to carry onboard to create these long trails?.....I often wonder, because many trails are so long that the amount of material needed to form these long trails would require such a large volume that these planes (if indeed all are planes) possibly could'nt carry such large volumes, or is very little material needed to mix with the moisture in the atmosphere that 1 small part = very long trail?
Thanks folks
Fantastic site John & Melody
And remember, when we stay silent we are just as guilty!
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:53 am Post Subject:
Welcome R E A L V I S I O N,
Quote:
...i am staring up at the sky looking at his formation thinking "why has'nt anyone else noticed?"
Funny thing that. :( It seems to be one hell of a threat to people for them to acknowledge strange stuff in the sky, even if it is right over their heads. Perhaps this is because of the job that's been done on the UFO topic, not wanting to be associated with a topic of ridicule... Or perhaps, more likely, that people unconsciously recognise the threat to their comfortable perception of how the world is. Indeed, there is some very spooky stuff happening in the skies of the world. Stuff that takes a considerable degree of courage to lift one's eyes to. We have had experience of individuals refusing to look upwards even when the stuff is happening over their heads and we point it out. People are also quick to ridicule or to dismiss the issue. It's human nature and something you'll have to used to if you are to continue to investigate this strange saga.
Being in Taranaki, probably New Plymouth, you are, of course, right under the domestic commercial aircraft flight path, especially North to South. Aviation guidelines direct jets flying to Christchurch from Auckland, for example, to fly over New Plymouth, over Nelson and to vector direct to ChCh from there. Northbound flights from ChCh fly over Wellington, over Ohura, then direct to Auckland from there. These latter flights would naturally be way to the East of your location, Ohura being approx. 80 kilometres to the ENE. Commercial international flights seen by you would probably be travelling to and from ChCh and possibly Japan and from our research so far, should not be frequent. It does not seem, for example, that Air NZ flies International jets over NP at all. One of our current projects is to create maps of all flight vectors both domestic and international, of contrail-producing jets over New Zealand. This is progressing well and will be published on Myst NZ in due course.
Quote:
Can anyone help with this, how much product would they need to carry onboard to create these long trails?.....I often wonder, because many trails are so long that the amount of material needed to form these long trails would require such a large volume that these planes (if indeed all are planes) possibly couldn’t carry such large volumes, or is very little material needed to mix with the moisture in the atmosphere that 1 small part = very long trail?
Persistent Contrails (PTs) used to be uncommon over most of NZ and only seen very rarely in the North (if at all). They also used to be seasonal and only associated with highly specific atmospheric and meteorological conditions. Now they are common and seen all year round, even in the height of summer, as you have observed yourself. This change of situation occurred in the late 1990s in many places around the world. To the astonishment of ground observers skies that rarely saw a PT were now filled with them. For a start the planes laying these trails all seemed to be military tanker craft, but after a while the observers noticed that ordinary commercial craft also began to leave PTs behind them. This change in the behaviour of aircraft contrails did not go unnoticed by a scientific community who were puzzled as to why the PT predictive model (Schmit-Appleman Criterion), in use since the 1940s and 1950s did not work anymore. A subsequent scientific investigation, somewhat superficial and cursory, concluded that the change was primarily due to the newer cleaner burning jet engines that were starting to be used on the world's airliners. This finding was (and still is) disputed by a number of scientists who have a great deal of difficulty with it but have no real voice within the scientific community now that the proclamation of cause has been announced.
So why, what is the real reason for these now ubiquitous PTs? You may have noticed that up to this point I have not used the term 'Chemtrail' - and for good reason. We do not feel that every PT is a Chemtrail (CT) although we regard all PTs as pollution and an abomination. The CT term has, in our opinion, been much misused at times, something that debunkers, faux-sceptics, scientists and airline pilots alike have been quick to jump on and make use of in order to denigrate all who seek to publicise concerns about what is happening in our skies. We regard the proliferation of PTs created behind domestic and international aircraft as a deliberate ploy to 'cloud the issue' and camouflage the very real Chemtrail spraying that is happening sometimes amongst the normal air traffic. It is possible that jet fuel has been modified in some way, perhaps with the addition of some substance. At present we have no conclusive proof of this but would certainly like to have some.
A PT may be a Chemtrail, but unless it is associated with some observable anomaly, something that does not fit with normal type commercial craft or normal flight vectors and especially when they are associated with weird and unknown technologies such as Black/Grey beams and invisible craft or those that move with the speed of a rocket. Now, some on this forum may tend to disagree with our caution on this matter and that's OK, it is the nature of forums to have healthy debate, and you yourself will arrive at your own conclusions which we hope you will express here.
There are many topics to do with PTs, CTs and everything related to them in the forum archives and hopefully you will also take some time to peruse these and learn. It is also hoped that you will continue to share your observations - and particularly look out for that anomalous stuff. :)
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:14 am Post Subject:
hi realvision,
welcome!
john, great informative post.
re: quantity of product. there is data with regards to the technology that "can be used" to produce "chemtrails". i remember reading a figure of a few hundred litres per "flight operation". i regret, i no longer have the actual reference for this, but it has stuck in my memory.
these materials which have been identified as "chemtrails" are highly hygroscopic (water-absorbing), so the amount of actual material is relatively low. yet, once you delve into the anomalies of chemtrail samples, it seems apparent that rather than a "quantity" of toxic material issue, it is a more of a "quality" issue (size, types of nano-particles (including biological pathogens), and apparent suspicious construction of bio-delivery mechanisms).
this site has a good repository of local information in its forum and galleries.
her eis another good introduction that also provides external links and a wider, global perspective:
