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Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:35 pm Post Subject: Rod Donald
what a tragedy. although, we liked to poke fun at our greenies, today, in christchurch, we buried one great man.
rod, may you rest in peace and find heaven a bit greener than new zealand.
this may not be appropriate thread for this, but does anyone else find it extremely odd for an extremely fit 48 year old, who didn't drink, or smoke and lived a relatively simple, yet driven life.. to die of a heart attack in his sleep? i have heard no news agency here even attempt to explain the cause of death, if there were existing health problems, or if he had a genetic predisposition (family proclivity) for heart problems.
am i wrong to question his death as perhaps not being entirely an accident? are the greens getting too popular (and powerful) for our koru shaped cloud makers? is anyone investigating this angle? do you think there will be any investigation on potential causes and proclivity for this "heart attack"? just hope he didn't have an apple pie for dessert.
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:14 pm Post Subject: Re: rod donaldson
Hello Hiero,
Hieronymous Bosch wrote:
what a tragedy. although, we liked to poke fun at our greenies, today, in christchurch, we buried one great man.
rod, may you rest in peace and find heaven a bit greener than new zealand.
Such a young, well respected man, husband farther and leader unexpectedly taken. Condolences to Rods family and friends.
Hieronymous Bosch wrote:
….to die of a heart attack in his sleep? i have heard no news agency here even attempt to explain the cause of death, if there were existing health problems, or if he had a genetic predisposition (family proclivity) for heart problems.
According to the Herald article below the autopsy report has ruled out a heart attack and there was no apparent family history of heart problems. I expect it may be sometime before a cause of death is established.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:00 pm Post Subject:
Agreed, it's a very sad event. :cry: I'm reminded of the death of Peter Blake. I didn't know Donald (or Blake), but I have found the events of the last few days to be very moving. I suppose it's the whole idea of someone so vital and full of energy and with so much yet to do so suddenly struck down. He certainly brought some colour into our political scene.
As Azimuth said, they have ruled out a heart attack (which makes sense given his apparent health and fitness). I imagine that there aren't too many other possibilities for what could strike so suddenly, particularly as he had undergone a recent medical, which I imagine didn't turn up anything unusual. Perhaps some sort of massive brain explosion?
One thing that does occur to me though... I remember a while back in the lead up to the election, the Saturday morning Agenda programme carried a little profile of Donald which showed him hanging out the washing with a phone strapped to his head - the phone on the Agenda program looked like a normal household cordless. However, Bob Harvey, guest panellist, made a comment about Donald wearing the phone so close to his head saying that he (Harvey) wouldn't even carry a cellphone in his pocket "for obvious reasons" he said.
The funeral and other tributes seemed to make much of this Rod Donald 'trademark' mentioning the cellphone strapped to his head (Rodney Hide made a similar comment in something I read). With the uncertainties about the safety issues surrounding cellphone use, I just wonder if perhaps his quaint cellphone wearing activities may have done some real damage? I have heard of sales reps who are high users of cellphones developing brain cancers....
P.S. Hiero, what's the significance of the apple pie?
Hieronymous Bosch wrote:
who didn't drink, or smoke...
Drinking doesn't always predispose one to a shortened life span. There is enough evidence out there to suggest that moderate drinking can, in fact, help to lengthen it :) I don't necessarily look at teetotalling as advisable, personally.
Maybe the powers that be already have some idea of the cause of death. Otherwise the body would not have been released as early as it was for the funeral. And according to the news today there was a private burial this afternoon. That would not have happened if there was any chance of further investigation.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:54 pm Post Subject:
Jean wrote:
That would not have happened if there was any chance of further investigation.
Hmmm. I'm not particularly ofay with such procedures. They did say a few days ago that further tests were being done and that it may be some time before the cause of death was determined - in a coroner's report.
Does Azimuth have some knowledge about such tests and the release of bodies etc? Would they now have enough 'raw data' to progress the kinds of tests required to reach an outcome?
Does Azimuth have some knowledge about such tests and the release of bodies etc? Would they now have enough 'raw data' to progress the kinds of tests required to reach an outcome?
Unfortunately I do Mel.
Under the Coroners Act 1988 where a violent or unnatural death occurs (i.e. accident, suicide etc), or where a cause of death certificate “has not” been issued by the persons doctor, then the case must be enquired into by the Coroner. This involves a post mortem examination of the deceased.
This procedure is usually carried out at the first available opportunity and when the Coroner is satisfied there is no longer any reason to hold the body, it is then released to family for disposal.
Obviously where there is no apparent reason for the “sudden death”, as maybe the case in this particular instance, it then becomes a Coroners case. During any subsequent autopsy, examiners will take tissue samples etc for pathological and toxicological testing to try and establish the cause of death. This may take sometime.
Also bear in mind Police are routinely involved at the earliest of stages with these “sudden deaths” as is required of them by law. They will carry out enquiries with family, friends, last people who saw the deceased prior to death, establish if sick or on medication etc etc. All these circumstances are reported to the Coroner prior to autopsy.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:22 pm Post Subject:
Azimuth wrote:
examiners will take tissue samples etc for pathological and toxicological testing to try and establish the cause of death. This may take sometime.
Interesting. I understand that in the event of a heart attack for example, they can detect the presence of something in the blood to indicate that a heart attack has taken place?
With regards to tissue samples etc, what would they be looking for? Cancer cells, abonormal cells, other substances? If they release the body, then there must be a fairly defined group of tests that are routine and which are likely to yeild the kind of information required...
Generally speaking, a pathologist would be able to determine pretty quickly if a person died of say a “Myocardial Infarction” by examining the heart muscle during autopsy. So with the autopsy report and circumstances surrounding death obtained by Police and any witnesses the Coroner can pretty well conclude the person expired because he had a heart attack.
In another "sudden death" case, say a virus or by the deceased unwittingly coming into contact with a toxic or poisonous substance or an allergic reaction to medication etc, determining the cause of death may not be as simple to establish without conducting further test on samples.
In all “sudden death" cases a doctor must declare “life extinct” and sign a certificate to say so. The deceased may be known to have a terminal illness such as cancer, but because the attending doctor has not treated that person for that illness and the usual family doctor is unavailable, a "certificate as to the cause of death" will not generally be signed by the attending doctor. Such cases automatically are treated as a Coroners case.
P.S. Hiero, what's the significance of the apple pie?
Hi Melody,
I think I can help you here.
Hiero is referring to an old Mafia trick of lacing an apple pie with Sodium Morphate in quantities enough to cause death. Apparently looks like a heart attack and the chemical is hard to detect as its absorbed quickly into the body.... - As mentioned in the gemstone file etc...
There were a couple of reports I heard on the news about Rod Donald being sick with a stomach upset of some sort during the week prior to his death.
Another odd thing on the news that I saw yesterday morning, about the upcoming funeral, on TV1 was a shot of Christchurch Cathedral with a huge persistent trail going right of the top of the cathedral in a clear blue sky. The picture was shown for several seconds so you got more than a glimpse. I looked out for the news item again at the next half hour bulletin and they showed the same thing.
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:53 am Post Subject:
good to see this discussion.
thanks folks.
lyra, yes, that is my subtle implication. don't like hearing the stomach upset part either. strangely, our entire family came down with a violent gastro episode that exact evening. funny thing is that as this came on, my heart felt like it was going to jump out of my chest. my wife experienced the same thing. my son was ill on thursday night, my wife, my daughter and i all got it at the exact same time on saturday night (in hanmer springs). mild tachycardias are common as gastroenteritis flu viruses begin their mrna transfers, but the one i experienced was a bit more vigourous. all is normal now, we got over this thing as fast as it came on. we've ruled out food poisoning since the illness had a distinct flu like contagion, rather than food-borne.
carus, yes, we have been experiencing higher than normal chemtrail operations here since this big "high" settled over the country. it was 31C at sumner beach yesterday. there is a trail right over christchurch city as i type this.. also, yesterday afternoon, there were two laid directly over our house, continuing over banks peninsula, lyttelton and the canterbury plains.
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:04 am Post Subject:
Hieronymous Bosch wrote:
who didn't drink, or smoke...
Melody Anderson wrote:
Drinking doesn't always predispose one to a shortened life span. There is enough evidence out there to suggest that moderate drinking can, in fact, help to lengthen it :) I don't necessarily look at teetotalling as advisable, personally.
hi melody,
yes. most studies indicate moderate drinking can provide health benefits.
"drinking" is one of those concepts where its meaning needs to be clarified. to some, "drinking" means 2 glasses per day with meals. to others, it can mean 10 glasses per day from dawn to dusk.
did anyone see that interesting documentary on discovery re: winston churchill? his secretary and close friends recall that he drank very moderately, and only occasionally. yet, his son said that almost daily, winston would start with whiskies upon rising, have several before lunch, several after lunch, and brandies all night long until he retired at 2 am.
An article on Stuff tells of an 18 year old dancer who has died suddenly from the same virus.
Quote:
But the Upper Hutt 18-year-old, described by those close to her as "perfect", died suddenly on Monday after being struck by viral myocarditis, the illness that triggered Green Party co-leader Rod Donald's death this month.
Cardiologists say a handful of people die from viral myocarditis each year. In some cases, symptoms are so mild they go unnoticed. In others, the heart muscle is weakened, causing it to beat irregularly and, in rare cases, to stop.
Cindy, a talented dancer, singer and tennis player, was head girl at Upper Hutt College last year. She collapsed soon after arriving home from her job as a receptionist for Century City property developers on Monday night.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:36 am Post Subject:
Carus wrote:
Seems odd
In what way? They do say that a handful of people die from this each year... Since Rod Donald, no doubt we are all more aware of this condition, particularly when it causes a death.
There isn't any mention of her being unwell as in Rod Donald's case which probably made him more susceptible. It could be that there were other factors but it's not stated in the article. There doesn't seem to be any mention of it on other news sites.
The illness has been brought to public awareness because of Rod Donald and as stated, it only happens to a handful of people each year. Just seems like such a strange thing to happen to a couple of healthy people.
There are many unsuspected ways a man in perfect health can die. Surley wouldn't it be in the best interests to respect Rod's family by not suggesting otherwise. They know and if it wasn't an accident, we will probably never know more so it is better to but ennergies into tangible problems like the Chemtrails.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:41 am Post Subject:
When an individual sincerely investigates the unusual, the anomalous and the 'not right', it seems to be a natural progression to arrive at the conclusion that the world is not at all as it seems to be. In my opinion, this is a position of personal power, ignorance and naivety representing lack of power. So if this realisation is a genuine heart-felt one and not just intellectually derived, then it follows naturally that International and National events in the news are investigated from various angles rather than just accepted. Some people call this 'conspiracy theory' - I call it a good thing. :D
