Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:58 pm Post Subject: bio aersols: apparently..no biggie in nz
did everyone see the news report regarding the bio aerosol program (painted moth)? a government paid scientist has risked his career in coming out against the spraying of vast amounts of the auckland population.
in 1978, California instigated a similar program.. against a pest called the "medfly".. the then governor, jerry brown.. ultimately permitted spraying of los angeles county (mostly the foothill communities of pasadena, monrovia) with malathion. we also had "full government assurance" of its safety. i remember a government/scientist "stooge" at a press conference.. whereby he drank a full cup of "malathion" to demonstrate how "innocuous" this poison is... and that we are all "scaredy cats" and "worry warts" for reporting that this stuff caused headaches, sore throats, birth defects, skin rashes, respiratory disease... as well as stripping the paint off our cars..
have a look at "malathion" on the internet.. profits over people. global corporations don't care about us.
the nz maf official had the gall to remove focus from this now "renegade" scientist for the people.. and discredit him with some outrageous.. "well.. he hasn't ruled out chasing ufos".. or something like this.. honestly... it was presented so poorly.. all i received was the scientist and "ufos" correlation..again.. a reminder that these officials play disinfo hardball... this maf minister then says...."the gold standard of health assessment (sic) in this country is the ministry of health".. wow! what a relief! i'm so glad that the another dodgy government department.. who represents the interests of global corporations.. not individual citizens.. gives them the green light to spray families, children, pets and other new zealand wildlife with this toxic bacteria aerosol.
also, what's up with nz government keeping the ingredients secret? what the heck is that all about.. do we the people have any rights in this country? i should have the right to know what the heck "an elected" official is spraying over my land, family and pets!! where is the accountability? have we all fallen asleep? or is this just welecomed these days... "yea, go ahead.. i don't care..as long as i have some dollars in my wallet.. and you don't make my butt redundant.." is this where we are at folks? has it slid this far down the slippery slope?
i would assume folks in auckland would be outraged and organizing big protests against this kind of nazi new world order rights abduction. i could not even find this news article tonight on stuff or tvone... was it eradicated for fear of damaging the government further?
so, we must address these local pesticide.. biocide.. spraying madness before we'll ever crack the international chemtrail juggernaut.. if the government has carte blanche to spray pesticides over us like insects.. what kind of power would we have to ever stop global chemtrails which are being sprayed by the global elite.. that ultimately controls the nz government?
aucklanders: you must stop this at all costs.. we fired a governor in califorina for this.... and stopped the spraying over populated areas... they were forced to use "mechanical traps", sterile flies and other less invasive measures.. sure it cost more... but it bloody worked!! remember, they do this (poison us to get rid of flies) because it's cheap..and reaps benefits for their global cabal brothers in the poison industry... government handing cheques to their brothers in crime... stop it now!!!... even if you have to listen to jefferson airplane or the doors! again.. organize and threaten exposure... don't accept being poisoned... it's the only way, otherwise.. we'll all be targetted eventually under the spray guns. the maf minister said.. "oh, by the way..we have authority to spray all of auckland metro if we need to.." this is totally insane..
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:34 pm Post Subject: Aerial sprays under health scrutiny
Thanks for the heads up Hieronymous. Didn't see the item last night, found the article here. Will have a look and make further comment. Sounds like a very very serious issue...
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/595690/
(also see the video of this news item here - although the link doesn't seem to be working at the moment - haven't been able to view it yet)
Update: TVNZ have now fixed the problem and advised.
FULL REPRINT (in case the item disappears):
Aerial sprays under health scrutiny (15:22)
Jul 3, 2005
The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (MAF) says it will aerially spray Auckland again if it has to just as it did to eradicate the last invasion of an exotic pest, the painted apple moth.
But how safe is this spray to humans? The ministry says there is no problem, but a Wellington scientist claims the government has ignored his findings and warns we should be concerned.
It is called Foray 48b, a biological pesticide that is lethal to the exotic moth.
For two years it was dumped on West Aucklanders, but MAF was insisting it was safe. But is it?
"It's potentially serious enough in my view that the spraying should stop," says scientist Simon Hales.
It is a rare thing to see a government scientist sticking his neck out but Dr Simon Hales doesn't buy MAF's safety assurances.
This expert, this epidemiologist, with an international career and reputation, is now prepared to risk all that for his conscience.
"The government has tried to cover up legitimate scientific concern and then they attacked the people that have written it," Hales says.
Hales and his team of scientists from the Wellington School of Medicine was commissioned by the government to assess potential health impacts of foray 48b aerial spray. But when he wrote a report claiming he had made some disturbing discoveries Hales claims the government chose to largely ignore him.
Worse than that, he found himself under attack.
"He seems to have made a giant leap into the unknown there and he might have said well there might be flying saucers out there and we shouldn't go outside until we prove its not," says Biosecurity Minister Jim Sutton.
What's troubling Hales are the tiny droplets in the foray 48 b spray - bio aerosols as they are called that are brimming with live bacteria and adrift on the wind. So small, he says, that you inhale them deep into your lungs and trigger a response that could, ultimately, cause fatal respiratory disease.
Christchurch smog gave him the clue. This is the environmental scientist's speciality and the effect of tiny carbon particles or smog on the respiratory system.
That expertise led Hales to make a disturbing discovery in the skies above West Auckland, a link he says no one has made before.
Hales says he made this discovery; those sore eyes and the sore throats, the blocked noses and dry coughs West Aucklanders complained about, exactly matched the symptoms for something more sinister - bio aerosol exposure.
Those tiniest wind borne droplets in the spray are small enough to become lodged deep in the lungs.
"It is not normal to be inhaling a fine spray of bacteria. I mean it's not a natural exposure. The body is designed to respond to bacteria appearing in unexpected places such as deep inside your lungs," Hales says.
When that happens Hales claims the live bacteria can trigger lung inflammation and with enough exposure the long term result he says can be chronic respiratory disease. Perhaps even lung cancer.
If Hales is correct this raises questions such as how much spray breaks down into bio aerosols, how far can those fine particles drift, how many people have been exposed and to what extent?
It is new science and MAF admits it does not have all the answers.
"These particles can drift for hours of days so it's not outrageous to suggest that the majority of the Auckland population could be exposed," Hales says.
"We wouldn't know about it unless we look and so far the government's not showing any sign of being interested in looking."
But Sutton insists the spray is safe.
"I just don't think he has presented a sufficient case to rule out the most effective weapon available to us to protect our people our environment and our livelihoods.
"Now the gold standard for getting advice on public health in New Zealand is the Ministry of Health. The ministry has not been able to find any evidence that would recommend that we stop spraying," he says.
The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry's latest aerial eradication programme took off in 2002 and was one of the biggest of its kind, anywhere in the world.
For two years MAF bombarded west Auckland with foray 48b, the target was a tiny australian caterpillar called the painted apple moth that posed an enormous economic threat to our trees.
MAF won this battle, but not the war.
This year more exotic moth pests have turned up in Auckland, like the Fall Web Worm, most likely solo stowaways and not new populations but MAF is on standby to send up the spray planes again.
Viv Shapcott is defiant, but she is also dying of Motor Neurone Disease. A mystery killer. No certain cause and no scientific or medical evidence to link it to foray 48b. But the West Aucklander is convinced her exposure to the spray contributed.
"I would feel incredibly angry in that maybe they can't prove that my illness is caused by the spray, but they certainly can't prove that it's not and the thought that this illness that is such an incredibly horrible debilitating illness could perhaps affect other people absolutely gives me the horrors quite frankly," Shapcott says.
Like others who were sprayed, Shapcott has suffered severe bouts of diarrhoea and believes their is a link.
"I don't believe that anyone could have diarrhoea as constantly as I had diarrhoea without it having some effect on the sensitisation process which then makes you susceptible to other things," she says.
The ingredients of foray 48b are a commercial secret however Sunday was given a document that said there was a tank of the pesticide stored in a South Auckland warehouse.
The language used in the American manufacturers guidelines for workers handling the pesticide is alarming, with the manufacturer advising extreme caution and calling a poison centre if there is contact with eyes or skin.
Despite that there is a raft of medical and scientific evidence backing the safety of the spray and no evidence linking Motor Neurone Disease to the bug buster foray 48b.
"I'm sure they will say that, they said that about agent orange, they said it about asbestos, they've had to eat their words and I suspect that in probably 20 years time they might have to eat their words yet again," Shapcott says.
Hales believes the community has essentially been experimented with and treated as guinea pigs.
"What I find most astonishing is the extremely poor quality of the evidence in relation to this spray," Hales says.
"Admittedly there is no positive evidence that the spray is causing long term harm but really nobody has looked, He says.
He claims studies done so far are flawed, that they are too small and too short-term, and that he says is irresponsible
Andrew Harvey had to give up his job and go on a sickness benefit during the spray programme.
"It was the worst time of my life and it went on for two years," Harvey says.
"I mean basically I was going night after night to the clinic in Henderson at two in the morning and it was cost nearly a $100 each time," he says.
MAF advised Harvey to leave the area every time the planes went up but when he came home, he claims his symptoms returned. The ministry now questions whether symptoms like Harvey's and Shapcott's were real or imagined.
It's latest health research about the spray programme reaffirms aerial spraying is safe and responsible and it says concern about exposure to chemicals like the spray may result in vague sensations being unconsciously magnified and misinterpreted.
Real or imagined, just 2%, of West Aucklanders asked for medical help and MAF's latest research says the spraydrift was minimal and unlikely to be environmentally or medically significant". Other studies are still looking at air quality and hospital admissions but Hales says none of this addresses the long term threat of bio aerosols.
The Ministry of Health now accepts Hales found a gap in MAF's research and that there is a theoretical risk from bio aerosols. But they say the other studies underway at Hales recommendation should be enough to identify any long term hazard.
MAF says there are no plans to stop aerial spraying and has blanket approval to spray the greater auckland region.
In 2003 former Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer helped prepare a submission opposing spraying that concluded "bio security may be fundamental to the future prosperity of New Zealand, but so is human health. The human costs of bio security measures must always be taken into consideration, and there needs to be legislative amendment to achieve this"
That is not the end of it.
There are two independent investigations into aerial spraying due out soon, one by the ombudsman, the other by West Aucklanders themselves who plan a peoples' inquiry in November.
I watched the programme on Sunday night and I think that Simon Hales is a hero and should get letters of support from all of us for his courageous stand.
My reaction was that it all reminded me of what we are fighting re the Chemtrails. I wonder if it would be worth contacting this gentleman about the CTs?
Jim Sutton made me very angry with his attitude and smugness. I have seen him respond in like manner when questioned in Parliament about the spray programme.
The weather here is shocking....nothing but gray skies for days and days, not a peep of sunshine, some rain and shifting from cold to mild...really mixed up, but the lack of sun is terrible. It just goes on for weeks and weeks, then maybe a day or so of sun and right back to the gray skies. So many people are sick in Picton and Blenheim.
There is no way to see any trails with this constant gray blur in the sky.
Did anyone else think the Auckland spray fiasco was like what we are facing with the CTs?
Hugs Betty
I saw the program and was interested to observe Jim Sutton's reponse. He came across as smug and dismissive of suggestions that spraying could be affecting people's health. Although we live in the area that has been sprayed we haven't had any adverse health problems at this time.
The following is some information that I found on the spray being used which gives more detail of its ingredients.
Foray 48b is not an organically certified pesticide.
It uses Btk as the active ingredient to deal with these pests and works by being ingested by caterpillar and giving them a stomach ache so they stop eating until they die of starvation days later. The Btk accounts for 2.1% of the spray. Btk is used in several organic sprays.
The remainder 97.9% of the spray is called inert substances - not because they do not react or are neutral but because they do not affect the caterpillar. The exact ingredients that make up this 97.9% of the spray is a trade secret.
(Note: Btk means Bacillus thuringiensis kurstaki and is a naturally occurring bacteria found in soil)
The inert substances are then revealed as follows:
Secret Spray Ingredients Released
(the inert portion of the spray)
Having a look around the web I found Biosecurity NZ and MAF to be vague in their descriptions of what's in the spray but I found an article on Scoop that confirmed the above list:
Quote:
The secret ingredients identified in the spray are methyl paraben (methyl4-hydroxybenzoate), benzoic acid/sodium benzoate, propylene glycol, potassium sorbate, sorbitol, hydrochloric acid, and polyacrylic acid. The other ingredients – Btk, fermentation solids and water – are already publicly known.
Surprisingly most of these ingredients are used in foods as preservatives and can cause adverse effects such as irritation to eyes and respiratory system, however it's supposed to be less toxic when ingested rather than inhaled. So even if you don't get sprayed you can still get it through food! Yuk :(
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Christchurch
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:11 pm Post Subject:
carus,
excellent information. the spray appears relatively benign, yet as you indicated, these ingredients normally are not "breathed-in" and those with respiratory disease or allergies may in fact develop worsening symptoms.
however, isn't strange that the government has made such a big deal of keeping the formulation "secret" as if to protect other "big businesses" from somehow making a competitive product? doesn't that seem odd? listing ingredients contained in products for consumer consumption should not be a "trade secret". in america, there are food labeling laws requiring that companies must list all ingredients in products for consumer consumption.
the fact is, it is how these ingredients are mixed.. and in what proportions, temperatures, concentrations, etc. that are "trade secrets". my mother-in-law makes one mean pavlova.. best i've ever tasted... it's no secret that pavlovas are made from egg whites, salt, sugar, white vinegar, cornflour, and vanilla essence... what differentiates a dodgy pavlova from a "to-die-for " pavlova is of course... how these ingredients are added, in what amounts, at what times in the process, at what temperature for how long,.. etc.
does new zealand have any similar label laws or any pending legislation that would require products consumed in this country to list all ingredients? i notice that some products we buy here do.. but most do not. it all seems a bit dodgy to me.
our elected governments need to be a voice of the people.. this is the root of representative democracy. they shoul not be a sounding board for big business. this is the root of global corporate / fascism.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:45 pm Post Subject:
Hieronymous Bosch wrote:
listing ingredients contained in products for consumer consumption should not be a "trade secret"
Agreed. Let alone products which, unlike the consumer who can choose whether or not to purchase/ingest/expose themselves to the substances contained therein, are rained down on the populous of an area without distinction or any kind of choice as to their exposure.
Apart from the obvious concerning issue about our elected officials keeping ingredients of these kinds of things secret, I find that there are a number of other quite disturbing aspects to this case - reminds me a little of the recent vaccination controversy also.
In this thread I have heard Betty and Carus mention Sutton's smug attitude. (I still haven't been able to view the video of the Sunday programme - have put a call into TVNZ reporting the bad link).
Several online dictionaries give the following definitions of smug:
"Exhibiting or feeling great or offensive satisfaction with oneself or with one's situation; self-righteously complacent"
"marked by excessive complacency or self-satisfaction; "a smug glow of self-congratulation"
"highly self-satisfied"
Is it really appropriate for Government representatives to be exhibiting self-righteous complacency, self-congratulation or self satisfaction when in the position of making comments or assurances about genuine public and scientific concerns about the safety of something being administered to the public en masse? I don't think so.
The public is not and should not be considered as an adversary or an enemy in these matters. It seems to me that the notion of public service no longer enters the heads of many of our elected officials these days. Since when is smugness an appropriate ministerial response?
You raise an interesting point Hieronymous, about aligning the issue with UFOs and the calculated juxtaposition of the issue with a widely ridiculed phenomenon. Sutton's tactics suggest those of someone who has something to defend or hide. It's another common tactic of people in this position to attack the individuals who are asking the questions and to ignore what those individuals are actually saying - make it personal and detract from the message.
I do think, as Betty suggested, that this very reminiscent of the chemtrail issue, particularly in terms of the symptoms many people in the spray zones have suffered.
I'm going to make a separate post about meteorites in this forum (seems rather topical in light of NASA's recent 'deep impact' experiment), to draw what I think is a significant parallel to the chemtrail issue in particular, but it also relates to this topic as well...
By the way: Anyone having trouble playing embedded Windows Media files may be interested to know that an upgrade to the Media Player 10 may well solve the issues. I had previously experienced difficulty until I upgraded to Windows Media Player 10 yesterday and can now play embedded wmv files in web pages...
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:49 pm Post Subject:
I have now seen the video. Sutton didn't strike me as smug (for smug, think Lockwood Smith). He seemed to me to be concentrating very hard on trying to remember what to say, keeping his eyes averted from the interviewer almost all of the time, as though he didn't want to look her in the eye...
The UFO comment was a bit bizarre, wasn't it?! It was almost like a rehearsed line...
Possibly the most alarming aspect was the handling guidelines on the labels the Sunday programme obtained from off of the containers - talking about reporting to a poisons centre if you come into contact with the stuff! Guess they dilute it when they spray it though...
however, isn't strange that the government has made such a big deal of keeping the formulation "secret"
I found it strange that even though information was released in 2003 about what was in the spray that it still seems to be a secret in recent reports like the Sunday documentary. On re-reading the Scoop article from May 2003 it seems that they were informed:
Quote:
"Everyone knows people are sick now. They have a right to know what they are being exposed to, and that is why we released the names of the ingredients to TV1’s Sunday programme".
However it looks like the formula was later changed:
Quote:
Meriel and Hana caution that since February of this year the government has actually been using a slightly different formula of the Foray 48B spray and new chemicals are involved.
“Whilst the government has said it is not of concern, as the 'spray's hazard profile is the same', we believe the government should do the honourable thing and tell the people of Auckland what the new chemicals are. This way those who need to can avoid exposure to these additional ingredients as well”.
Well yes, you'd think that it would be the least the Government could do to assist those who felt affected.
Reading the notes of a Council committee meeting held at the Waitakere City Council on 8 March 2005; the aerial spraying was completed on 13 May 2004. Monitoring will remain in place until January 2006 and if no further moths or larvae are found the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry will declare the painted apple moth eradicated.
The Waitakere City Council has also lodged a complaint under the Official Information Act 1982 to the office of the Ombudsmen challenging the refusal by the Ministry of Agriculture and Foresty to release the ingredients of Foray 48B. The Council are also to engage an independent expert to review the health effects of Foray 48B. One purpose of this is to ascertain whether future spraying in West Auckland or elsewhere in NZ will constitute a health risk. Apparently the report and its findings will be made available to the public.
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
Location: West Auckland
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:53 pm Post Subject: Aerial Spraying Feedback
Hi - since that TV programme , Viv has sadly died. She was adamant the aerial spraying triggered her motor neurone disease. For more background information and latest updates in the campaign to stop any more aerial spraying over Auckland go to www.purplepukeko.blogspot.com
Also see www.peoplesinquiry.co.nz
