Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ New Zealand based Discussion Forums The strange & mysterious, archaeological anomalies, modern oddities... Current affairs, health & medical issues, Aerosol Spraying in NZ... ...and general interest: ARCHIVES
Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:42 am Post Subject: We will never be able to win this one
I keep reading the same things over and over - contails CAN last for hours, contails CAN expand.. Ive come to the conclusion: we have no proof of anything, nobody is going to believe the results of a test for barium, nobody is going to take a whistle blower seriously so all of our pictures are usless, for all we know we could be seeing legitimate contrails so how can we expect visitors to take us seriously?
it is interesting how so many of us saw the freak chemtrail on march 20th, maybe it was the weather?
The interesting thing to remember about the contrail/chemtrails is that there is evidence I believe that implies the contrails have only been around for maybe 10 years
We have had high altitude jet travel for decades now
What do you think Bloodhound
Well you're going to get disinformation whatever with the Internet. Even the average person can misinterpret correct information or talk about things without all the facts and give the wrong idea.
For many people, a glance or look at chemtrails doesn't provoke their curiousity. I know from one or two I've spoken to. Nonetheless I still feel there is an avenue here for those who are curious to gain from others' experience and learn from the information that continues to be presented.
One of the links you have provided above has some very interesing information indeed which I haven't heard before. It doesn't seem to me from this article that chemtrails are being dismissed for what they are. It is about a report documenting a 16 hour period of observation undertaken in Britain by some specialists (some ex Royal Air Force). It's worth reading the whole article to get the gist but certainly the following doesn't fit in my mind about just normal contrails occuring:-
....Thus we concluded that chemtrails represent a continuous operation of incredible magnitude.
....Roughly, they resemble in shape and size the Boeing 757 (the type that crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11), but carried no markings.
...The speed was steady, quite precisely maintained, being 1200 –1400 mph. This is somewhat high for an outmoded passenger aircraft type, meant for inland short/medium range commuter flights at a top speed of 450 mph!
…the sky trails of no less that 234 almost identical aircraft at between 40-50,00 feet Since this hourly rate continued during the day it represented some 2340 sorties over ten hours.
…….. travelling at speeds equivalent to the combat speed of F16 or Typhoon Euro-fighter.
....Again, the absence of reported noise is strange. Even a single Tornado on afterburner over central London would shake the population up considerably. Since our observers at military and civilian airfields reported no such activity by any such aircraft, we have here a modern mystery in our skies visible to all on a clear day. National airspace regulations don’t appear to be a problem at all with any country as far as these infringements are concerned.
....This vast number of aircraft appear to have no detectable bases, they have no apparent air-refuelling needs, they do not carry drop tanks, and the routes appear to stretch across the sky from all compass points, often crossing one another on a pretty random basis. They appear also to have no detectible manufacturers, support base, or refuelling facilities. And they don’t appear to land or take off! Again, since no air force in the world (not even the United States Air Force) has any supersonic transport aircraft, the presence of many hundreds of supersonic transport aircraft is rather strange!
....The training schemes and accommodation of the personnel appear not to exist! Since no such numbers of this aircraft type are on manufacturer’s lists, and the number that have been manufactured are all busy on conventional routes flying conventional passengers and cargo, we have here a true mystery of our time.
… but they do not appear to have any measurable frequency signature and neither do they appear to make any physical noise.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:27 am Post Subject:
Hi Bloodhound,
You sound a little discouraged, my friend... :?
Quote:
keep reading the same things over and over - contails CAN last for hours, contails CAN expand.. Ive come to the conclusion: we have no proof of anything, nobody is going to believe the results of a test for barium, nobody is going to take a whistle blower seriously so all of our pictures are usless, for all we know we could be seeing legitimate contrails so how can we expect visitors to take us seriously?
One of the problems we can have in studying the Chemtrail phenomena in that because there is so much misinformation, disinformation, misinterpretation etc, you can get to a point where you don't know what to believe. Let's have a look at your links:
http://www.goodsky.homestead.com/files/deception5.html
Persistent Contrails have been around even before the first world war, in fact since 1938 during the Spanish civil war, which was the first time the world had seen bombers flying in formation at high altitude. The bombers and high flying craft of this era, not jets, of course, had very polluting exhausts which was a main factor in the production of persistent trails. Put this together with formations of hundreds of planes and escorts and it's very natural they would cover the sky with contrails and haze. Nothing to do with the modern Chemtrail phenomena though.
http://www.crystalinks.com/contrails.html
NASA comments are blatant disinformation, they want people to believe that what they are seeing and experiencing is just a normal result of the pollution from an increase in the amount of air traffic. It is not!
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html
Once again no mention of the particulate matter absolutely required in order to create persistent cloud-forming trails. I wonder why they omit this fundamental element of the science of trails. Part of the truth is not the truth...
http://www.weatherwise.org/qr/qry.chemtrail.html
Another case of disinformation, or in this case it may simply be a case of ignorance, an individual who does not step outside to see what is there to be seen - especially in the US. No one can truly understand the anomalous nature of Chemtrails unless they are not only seen, but observed repeatedly over a prolonged period.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz
Once again blatant, almost criminal, disinformation. For a start and once again, no mention of the minute particles that are required as a nuclei for the condensation and resultant ice crystals to form. Why do individuals such as this 'weather expert' neglect to mention this aspect? Well, if they did they would also have to mention the word aerosol.
Aerosols are tiny particles suspended in the air, smoke, dust, soot etc. The presence of these in the exhaust of a jet, allows hot water vapour, also in the exhaust, to condense and snap freeze if the ambient temperature is cold enough. Thus a standard contrail is formed. The amount of aerosols required to produce what we know as chemtrails is massively out of proportion to the quantity of exhaust particles that should be produced by clean burning modern jet engines. Not only this, but in order for the trails to persist and grow and spread as they do, a certain type of aerosol is required, one more akin to a desiccant, one that by its very nature absorbs water from the surrounding air and keeps doing it for many hours even when relative humidity and temperature are not conducive to the formulation of aircraft vapour trails. Aluminium and Barium salts will do this and the patents and technical documents are there to prove it. They do not tend to release the absorbed water also, thus the association of Chemtrails and drought.
No they do not address the subject of aerosols and they do not because the very word has become dangerous to mention for them. They do not want the ordinary person to understand too much about the science, so they feed us a mixture of incomplete science and gobbledegook. They metaphorically pat us on the head and say everything is alright, everything is normal, you can’t be expected to understand, you’re not a scientist like us.
We all have to be a bit patient. At Mysterious New Zealand, it's very important for us to get it right, to establish credibility with the quality of our research and, of course, our presentation. There are well meaning Chemtrail sites out here that diminish their cred by getting the science or the facts wrong. For example, the oft repeated statement that contrails never used to be persistent, well they did, it is a matter of record. We ourselves have pics from at least 1968 of the sort of thing we see today, persistent trails that hang around for hours. But they used to be rare and required precise meteorological conditions to occur. Now they are common no matter what the conditions, that’s a fact. And it's a fact that there was a sudden onset of Chemtrails in 1997/1998 in many countries around the world.
There's a lot going on behind the scenes here and you will see more content on the site in the near future. When the time is right and we have the right degree of content, we'll promote Mysterious New Zealand vigorously - and do what we can to stir up the politicians and figures of authority etc
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Levin, New Zealand
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 2:17 pm Post Subject:
John Anderson wrote:
Hi Bloodhound,
You sound a little discouraged, my friend... :?
Quote:
keep reading the same things over and over - contails CAN last for hours, contails CAN expand.. Ive come to the conclusion: we have no proof of anything, nobody is going to believe the results of a test for barium, nobody is going to take a whistle blower seriously so all of our pictures are usless, for all we know we could be seeing legitimate contrails so how can we expect visitors to take us seriously?
I agree with you John, that we do indeed have to be very careful to get our facts right, reliable and most of all, credible!
We will be shot down in flames, and at best, treated jest by those who have not observed or been in a position to be convinced of the presence of these phenomena.
If we rush, ill-informed, into hitting the headlines over this, our case will be lost!
Maybe part of the effect of all this stuff in the atmosphere is making us feel discouraged in more ways than one.
(I have felt discouraged over causes I have put huge amounts of effort into, apparently with no results :))
However - do not be dismayed.
If those whom you wish to convince or assist will not be, that is their misfortune :!:
Just 'hold back' a little, reserve your energy in their direction - BUT invest your energy here in this forum!
John and Melody have a plan in mind - when the time is right, they will know how to 'announce' our concerns.
Meanwhile, we must observe; we must photograph and report what we see!
I find being able to discuss our concerns in all areas (and who knows? they may all be connected) very helpful - it has been a stress-relief for me.
I don't wish to sound selfish or self-indulgent - but maybe we can all be of support - Bloodhound please don't lose heart :( Cheer up, we're all in this together :wink:
Regards,
Pamela
Well said Pamela
I had mega chemtrails here the last few days and have finally gotten the hang of sending the pictures on (I hope).
In fact they are here in the sky this morning with lovely pink stripes reflecting the rising sun....just took pictures.
That these persistant trails affect my health is very definite and if anyone wants to know how I have been affected, I will be glad to explain my symptoms.
My animals have been feeling the ravages from time to time and dying very suddenly and mysteriously over the past few years.
Bloodhound, don't be discouraged. As Pamela says, we are all in this together.
Betty-Arapawa
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:45 am Post Subject:
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world;
indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
--Margaret Mead, anthropologist
Hi Tim
I had tried to send you a message twice back in the beginning of my learnning my way around Mysterious NZ. I am still not totally clued in, but getting better. I wondered if those messages ever got to you?
Anyway, I have begun sending pictures after much ado and so much help from Melody and John, so you all should be seeing some of what I see almost every day.
It is just so good to be able to talk to people who don't think I have gone over the brink! Having folks who are open minded and willing to look and see makes a big difference when you are experiencing someting like chemtrails. Do you find this too'?
Betty-Arapawa
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:14 pm Post Subject: Health effects
Hi Betty,
Any health effects that you suffer on chemtrail days you should post here. Health effects of the trails is a very unknown scenario. On some heavy spray days I have noticed people at my work sneezing and coughing who dont usually have these problems. Respiratory problems seem the to be the prevalent health effect.
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:34 pm Post Subject:
Hi Betty
No I did not get those replies from you. I am looking forward to seeing the photos of the chem trails in your zone. I don't seem to be able to view them in the gallery yet . I checked out the photos from your place in Arapawa. Nice place that you have got there. It is a shame that these idiots are ruining it with the Chem trails. You mentioned that they affect your health?. One of my friends was down in Tasmania last week and he photographed some CT activity down there. So even some of the the most environmentally clean places on the planet are getting afflicted by this activity.
It is good to record our experiences with one another because we do not have to feel that we are alone in this. The more that we can raise public awareness on this issue the more we can take positive action for demanding a clear understanding about who is doing this and why.
[Copied to Chemtrails and Health Issues forum as new topic]
Hello again Tim
You didn't miss much by not getting my earlier messages as I was pretty wobbly trying to find out how to do things.
Yes, my health was badly affected. My joints were terribly sore, I could not stop coughing and slept sitting up for 3 months. I could not get in or out of bed without help and I really thought I was going to die...really
Finally I ended up with ME. I don't take drugs, so launched into an all herbal treatment and slowly, like about 3 years worth, I got on top of it. It is still there, but not as bad. I have a perpetual thickness in the back of my throat, like a wad of bubble gum that I can't get rid of. I have badly swollen joints and highly sensitive skin.
I am in a lot of pain at times still, but all in all, I have managed to live with it and know when I have to slowdown. It is a bit harder with my husband gone. He died 2 1/2 years ago from a sudden heart attack.
Yes, this is a beautiful place, but we have CTs almost every day.
My animals have suffered badly also.
Where are you located Tim?
I have sent several pictures now to the Photo Gallery and will send some more today with a bit of luck.
Betty-Arapawa
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 2:11 pm Post Subject: Re: Health effects
Deano wrote:
Hi Betty,
Any health effects that you suffer on chemtrail days you should post here. Health effects of the trails is a very unknown scenario.
Agreed Deano. Not only is this forum a place to share and compare notes etc, it is also intended to become a document of public record on chemtrail activity in New Zealand, including health effects and so on...
We encourage everyone to report activity, even on a daily basis, if that is what is happening.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 2:14 pm Post Subject:
Tim Rose wrote:
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world;
indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
--Margaret Mead, anthropologist
Well said Tim, that's an excellent quotation and one, I believe, is very valid here.
Hang on a minute...I am lost (again)
Just where does Deano want me to post health matters? He said "here" which is where?
Like I said I am lost, but happy to post where it should be. Also am using Misc Catagory for the pictures still, so hope they are finding you Melody
Betty-Arapawa
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 2:36 pm Post Subject:
Betty,
I think Deano was referring to the Mysterious NZ forums in general. Although if you are posting a specifically health related message, or a new message which is health related, you should click on Chemtrails and Health Issues from the forum homepage and post those messages in that area.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 2:49 pm Post Subject:
Betty,
I just approved the last photo you uploaded to the gallery. It's an amazing shot and obviously gives us a good idea of the kind of activity you are experiencing down there in the 'normal' course of events.
Just a couple of points. Where you are entering Miscellaneous Category, please enter a title instead - maybe include the date the picture was taken - something along the lines of:
Chemtrails, Arapawa - 13th May 2005
The category can be selected from the drop down menu during the upload process. If you don't see it, don't worry. When the photos are approved, I usually make sure the category is correct and designate it to the correct one if required.
Interestingly, you forgot to resize that last one. However, rather fortunate as well. I notice there is a very clear UAP object in your shot, in the upper left hand corner. This is particularly noticeable in the very large image, which you can get to by clicking on the shot, in the gallery. In the resulting popup window, you can clearly see the disk-like object.
Click on the following link, then click on the intermediate sized image. This will open the full size image in the popup.
Hi Melody
Well, that came as a surprise. I sure didn't see anything when I was taking the pictures.
From seeing what I have sent so far, I would say some of the earlier ones I was having trouble sending actually must have gotten through as they are from a few days back. Some look to be duplicates??
I shall try to get things in the right places and with the right titles, but you had better check as I am still a bit fuzzy. Need to do this a few more times. At least the pictures are getting through which makes a pleasant change for me (and no doubt you) I still have to look at the instructions from time to time as it is not yet installed in my brain.
Wonder what that disc was doing.? Good thing I forgot to downsize for once.
Hugs Betty
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:04 pm Post Subject:
Hi Betty
It sounds very serious the affect that these Chem trail criminals are having upon your personal health and lifestyle and your animals and I am saddened to hear that. I am from Auckland originally, but I currently reside in Melbourne Australia. We are getting Chemed over here to, maybe not as heavily as your reporting zone, but fairly regularly. I became aware of this CT activity when I was staying in the Nelson area at the end of 95 and beginning of 96. And between 1997-2001 I was with a group of travelling Hare Krsna monks. In our journeys we noticed this activity going on all over the North and South Islands.
Thanks for managing to navigate your way around getting those photos on-line. It must have been a surprise finding that you had captured that UFO on your camera.
