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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:22 pm Post Subject: Lower North Island Trails
There were quite a few chemtrails over us on monday. I work in Palmerston North and see them laying lines off the west coast beaches always starting after lunchtime.They go back and forth sometimes for 4 or 5 hours and the trails move inland,spreading over a wide area with hazy mist.I find it strange that they left us a perfect sunny day today though as these are the type of day the chemtrails appear.
We have often wondered whether trails are being laid out over the West Coast beaches here in Auckland, in order that they drift inland.
Here in recent times, particularly in West Auckland, there has been much controversy over the spraying for Painted Apple Moth. We would imagine that overt chemtrail spraying, say of the nature of that over Marlborough, would be much more noticeable over Auckland and perhaps less tolerated. However, many of the cirrus type residues we have seen in recent months look very much like mature chemtrails that have grown, spread and drifted - and they all drift in from the West Coast.
We usually like to maintain the guideline that if you don't see the plane laying it down and don't directly observe the resulting spread, then you can't call it a chemtrail. It's either a persistent contrail or a cloud.
But we certainly have seen some cirrus cloud spread that is significantly reminiscent of chemtrail activity and that bears many of the hallmarks. This could be one way they could achieve coverage over the Auckland area, whilst avoiding awareness of their manifestation and therefore, avoid possible alarm from a more 'aerial spraying aware' populous.
We are keen to hear from anyone who observes this kind of activity off the West Coast of New Zealand. We have recently become aware of someone who has reported much activity off the West Coast of the South Island. If there is a lot of persistent contrail activity off the West Coast, then what are those planes doing there and where are they going to?
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:53 pm Post Subject: Wish i had a digital camera
The spray lines cover at least 50 or 60k long at a rough guess, from what im guessing (again only rough guessing) is waitarere beach to almost Wanganui. If you drew a line between those two points that would be a fairly good estimate. The planes are extremely quick and they are adept at using the sun on that side to hide themselves in the arvo. They dont seem to bother on days with higher winds or very still days. Slight easterly breeze is perfect. Weather patterns in the days following spraying seem eratic and i cant see noticeable trends there yet.
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:01 pm Post Subject: off the west coast of Wanganui too
I see the exact same thing here. They spray upwind to the west off the coast of Wanganui and it drifts downwind over the Weat coast spreading out as it goes. The trails are often huge and stretch well north towards New Plymouth and well south. I "ve posted a picture taken from Napier looking West over the ranges and the same Chemtrails and chemhaze can be seen.
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:07 pm Post Subject: Chemtrail activity lower north island
Interesting comments hadleigh keep me posted it looks like the chems go up farther than i thought. Havent seen any for a little while now and it looks like the weather isnt going to serve them up too many more perfect days heading back into winter.
A couple days ago we were waiting for a glimpse of the shuttle and ISS , looking west from Kapiti Coast just b4 sunset. The trails on the horizon were thick sludgey gross looking and obscuring the sunset. Rather than Military chem-trail psy-ops whatevers, they were the result of commercial aircraft flying the Wellington-Auckland and vice versa route. Whilst it was no X-files, the pollution aspect of it was troubling, if indeed it was anything more than water vapour.
One thing I know for sure, if my car blew that bad, it would not get it's WOF. Maybe I should paint a koru or kangeroo on it.
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:12 am Post Subject:
Welcome [-Energizer+}, I think you make a very relevant and important point..
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One thing I know for sure, if my car blew that bad, it would not get it's WOF. Maybe I should paint a koru or kangeroo on it.
This issue is a total minefield for anyone looking for genuine answers. There seems to be a great deal of 'muddying of the waters' amongst real concerns and observations, as well as the hysteria, twisting of the facts to fit theories and those who are set on a particular perspective and perception of this phenomena.
All of this, ironically, tends to overshadow a more simplistic concern - the obvious polluting effects of growing numbers of persistent contrails. Because of the abundance of theories surrounding the seeming sudden appearance of major incidence of these trails, particularly in the US, the whole chemtrail/persistent contrail area has become isolated from any mainstream attention. Attention that is sorely needed and that has the potential to unite the so called believers and the skeptics.
Whether or not you subscribe to some of the more conspiratorial theories, the lingering pollution manifested by these trails should be of concern to everyone. The fact that they are attached to what is considered to be 'fringe' ideas, has ensured the issue gets little hearing in any 'respectable' mainstream arena and is certainly not presented to the public in a manner that allows them to grasp the significance of what is occurring...
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:18 pm Post Subject:
Hello and welcome -Energizer+,
when we were last down your way in April this year, the degree of evil looking murky brown haze off the West coast of the lower North Island surprised us. In the South Island, during this same trip, a similar haze covered the entire Marlborough and Nelson regions, we'd never seen the like before in these places. Interestingly, we saw no Persistent Contrails, just a few normal dissipating ones. Even more surprising was that the haze was also visible off the West Coast, Punakaiki etc. All this during a period of winds consistently from the Sou-West. So, pollution from what, from where?
Low brown fog and trails from near Foxton looking West about 8:30am. Lots of trails for that time in the morning we would have thought...
Rarangi Beach, Cloudy Bay Marlborough looking towards the South.
Marlborough from the West.
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The trails on the horizon were thick sludgey gross looking and obscuring the sunset. Rather than Military chem-trail psy-ops whatevers, they were the result of commercial aircraft flying the Wellington-Auckland and vice versa route. Whilst it was no X-files, the pollution aspect of it was troubling, if indeed it was anything more than water vapour.
Whatever Commercial Jet Aircraft do in creating pollution, one thing they are not normally accused of is creating the type of effect in the sky one normally associates with motor vehicle visible pollution. Modern jet engines burn fuel efficiently and produce a very visibly clean exhaust. They do produce lots of water vapour, one report states about 1.25 kg of water produced to every kg of fuel burned, and significant amounts of CO2 and other substances such as NO and NO2 etc. All these by-products are not visible. Unburned Hydrocarbons and soot, the exhaust components that are visible in high enough concentrations, are minimised in the modern engine, producing only 0.113 grams of soot per 1 kg of fuel burned according to the same report mentioned above. These engines are well maintained and do not go out of tune like diesel vehicles we see on the road trailing clouds of dense smoke.
You can test this for yourself at any airport from which high-flying jets depart. Some years ago any jet taking off under full throttle would trail a very visible exhaust. It is a lot different now.
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...recently we were in Wellington to watch the cricket and I observed a couple of Qantas 737s taking off (picture below). It was a beautiful cloudless clear evening and I said to my partner, note that aircraft - there's no hint of any pollution coming from the engines.
This quote is from our forum member Info4 who is ex Air Force and is well informed about commercial and military jets.
Hi and thankyou for the welcome.
Yes I've seen the sky look exactly like the above photos. One time in the middle of a beautiful clear blue sky there were maybe 3 or 4 contrails (for the want of a better word) that were produced by high flying aircraft, just off the coast. Over the next fhour or so these clouds slowly dissapated as they drifted eastwards, until the sky was no longer blue and clear, it had become brown and hazy, and dare I say it....rather scary looking. Whilst the modern jet engine is probably far more efficient that they used to be, would the exhaust plumes they leave behind still contain kerosene?
These routes are flown everyday yet not everyday is this effect evident, it seems to be an issue on those crispy but fine days......and I remember reading somewhere about the atmospheric conditions that produce contrails from aircraft , can also produce natural forming contrail type clouds, although the nasty looking polluted clouds don't strike me as very natural. Unless of course our air quality isn't as flash as our 'clean green' kiwi self-belief. Which leads me to my next point.
Is it possible do you think that some of the aerial anomalies we witness might be the filthy by-product of our cities and motorways that drift with the wind? When I used to live in the Hutt Valley, from a vantage point on top of the hills, you could see a definite blanket of smog that would hang over Wellington and the Hutt on the still days, yet would not be so evident when there was wind about. This smog effect also was not so evident when you were down there under it's blanket.
I'm not trying to explain anything away as I'm sure there are all sorts of sinisterisms that go on in NZ that I wouldn't even know about, but like you said, it's all about separating fact from fiction for a clearer or as clear as possible view.
The chemtrails being created off the west coast of lower north island get laid in the same area time and time again. For a long time I presumed it was aircraft fuel burnoff but after a long amount of observing I started noticing anomalous patterns. Aircraft going back and forward in a particular area laying these lines which have an obvious 'switch on' and 'switch off' look to them simply dont fit standard aircraft patterns.
Aircraft going back and forward in a particular area laying these lines which have an obvious 'switch on' and 'switch off' look to them simply dont fit standard aircraft patterns.
eeeewwww that sure sounds creepy.....somethings afoot above the skies of Palm Springs by the sounds of it. Any idea as to the type of aircraft involved or are they too far away/above to make out? Wheres that industrial strength telephoto lens when you need it?
Hi Energizer and welcome to the forum.
Some good post from you,
I can answer (or at least offer my opinion and observation) on a couple of things for you
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Whilst the modern jet engine is probably far more efficient that they used to be, would the exhaust plumes they leave behind still contain kerosene?
I think you are right here and my reason for saying this is when we perform engine runs after maintenance you can definitely tell the engine is burning kerosene as the smell is very distinctive. I wouldn't know who much there is but there must be some trace as the smell confirms this.
In my days with the airforce the older aircraft definitely left a sooty trail for all to see but as John says it is much better these days.
As a person who has worked on aircraft for most of my adult life this whole issue continues to puzzle me somewhat .
Why do we see the trails sometimes and not others :?:
It has been suggested by some members that they can turn them on and off .
Personally I find that a little hard to believe, particularly in relation to commercial aircraft with in NZ. If it was military and overseas military at that then yes maybe but for commercial aircraft (ie Air NZ etc) I don't know.
But I will say it doesn't pay to be to certain about these things and as I can I will keep my eyes open.
The great thing about modern phones now is that a lot of them have cameras and if I see anything you can be sure I will take a photo of it.
Your comments about the smog has reminded me about the brown haze I see over Auckland at times. I would say this is standard pollution and not the result of aircraft spraying as we don't see chemtrails in Auckland as are seen in other parts of NZ, unless it is from drift off the coast further down NZ.
The pollution has gotten worse in the last few years but with all the sea and wind around it can also get blown away. However I have noticed more calm days which seems unusual. Sometimes there is no wind at all and the atmosphere is very still. I'm not a weather expert but at times something about these very still days doesn't seem quite 'normal' for Auckland.
I'm also wondering if there is some connection with wind conditions and chemtrails.
