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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:32 am Post Subject: "HOLE PUNCH CLOUD?" over WHANGAREI, 24 MARCH 05 |
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I took this and several others photographs of the cloud formation pictured below this morning at 0728hrs. Apparently this event is known as a "Hole Punch Cloud" and is a rare phenomenon.
The roof line of my neighbours house is visible in the bottom of the image. The hole punch cloud was some distance South East of my home and was huge. I would have loved to have viewed it from beneath.
There seems to be only a handful of "Hole Punch Cloud" photos on the net, interestingly enough a lot of them were taken in Australia. Here is what is said about the phenomena on a NASA site:
| Quote: | | Explanation: What could create a huge hole in the clouds? Such a hole, likely hundreds of meters across, was photographed last month from a driveway near Mobile, Alabama, USA. Very unusual to see, hole-punch clouds like this are still the topic of meteorological speculation. A leading hypothesis holds that the hole-punch cloud is caused by falling ice-crystals. The ice-crystals could originate in a higher cloud or be facilitated by a passing airplane exhaust. If the air has just the right temperature and moisture content, the falling crystals will absorb water from the air and grow. For this to happen, the water must be so cold that all it needs is a surface to freeze on. The moisture lost from the air increases the evaporation rate from the cloud water droplets so they dissipate to form the hole. The now heavier ice crystals continue to fall and form the more tenuous wispy cloud-like virga seen inside and just below the hole. Water and ice from the virga evaporates before they reach the ground |
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040112.html
Here is different perspective from another site.
| Quote: | "...The first KGB weather engineering tests over the U.S., using their relatively new interferometers, produced signatures of anomalous perfectly round holes appearing in clouds. These experiments started in 1967 or thereabouts. The Russians gave us the very severe "deep freeze" winter of 1967, as an initial weather-engineering test of their energetics interferometry weapons."
- T.E. BEARDEN, "FER DE LANCE" 2nd edition 2002 pg. 115
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http://www.luxefaire.com/holeclouds/
Incidently I did not hear or see any jets/planes in the area until later in the morning. There was no ground wind to speak of but low cloud was moving from the North West at about 10 knots. Whatever the cause, I consider myself very fortunate to have not only being witness to such an event but also having the opportunity to photograph this awesome phenomenon. The photos do not do this event justice.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:12 pm Post Subject: |
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That Australian site was the first time I saw hole punch clouds or knew that they even existed. Someone sent us a link a couple of months ago. I have to say I was completely creeped out by those. My opinion: I don't for a minute imagine that those are natural. Beautiful - yes, most definitely. Spooky - I'll say...
Maybe NASA's explanation 'holds water' - although you can certainly spot the anomalies in their explanations about aircraft contrails and the recent proliferation of them, so I'm not sure I would necessarily believe it simply because they happen to make a statement which seeks to explain a particular phenomena.
It would be interesting to talk to someone with a deep knowledge of weather related phenomena to get an independent rationale. |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:41 am Post Subject: |
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John and Melodoy,
| Quote: | | It would be interesting to talk to someone with a deep knowledge of weather related phenomena to get an independent rationale. |
Had been pondering this very point myself. I thought I might write a letter and forward the photo to NIWA and see if they can give there opinion.
Any other suggestions welcome.
Keep Looking UP
Azimuth
PS.Must go now and check the progress of the Chem cloud sprayed near my place this morning. Photos and report to come. |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:49 pm Post Subject: |
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I have just emailed the Met Service about the featured "Hole Punch Cloud". I'll let you know if I get a reply.
I have also found another example of a "Hole Punch Cloud" photo in New Zealand, it can be seen on page two of the following site:
http://metsoc.rsnz.govt.nz/
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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John Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:05 pm Post Subject: |
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Hi Azimuth,
How's things in the 'winterless north' ?
To send that pic to NIWA is a very good idea, and, of course, post their reply on the forum. :) We've eventually got to start reaching out to authority with our questions and findings, even though we know what their response is likely to be...
Hopefully, this site will attract some people deeply in the know who are able to share info not normally available to the hoi polloi. And, individuals who have the time, ability, and inclination to bombard government departments with persistant communication (persistant com-trails?).
All in good time I guess...
Regards |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:17 pm Post Subject: |
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| Wow those rainbow type colour effects in the New Zealand hole punch clouds are interesting - looks like the South Island... |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:25 pm Post Subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wow those rainbow type colour effects in the New Zealand hole punch clouds are interesting - looks like the South Island... |
Yes sure does look like the SI and yes the iridescence captured in the image is fantastic.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:56 pm Post Subject: |
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John
| Quote: | | (persistant com-trails?). |
ROFLMAO, love it you have coined a new phrase :lol:
Seriously, it would be benneficial to attract a Metguy (or gal) to this site.
Things are OK up here, a bit of Chem activity photo'd earlier this morning. I will download shortly and then upload anything worthwhile.
I will also email NIWA later.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Carus
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 352
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:44 pm Post Subject: |
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I came across some sites with those cloud punch holes a few months ago. They are very startling. You sure get some dramatic stuff up there Azimuth! Makes one wonder what it is about Whangarei that its all happening in that area. It there some sort of Echelon installation up there?
Carus |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:10 pm Post Subject: |
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Carus
| Quote: | Makes one wonder what it is about Whangarei that it’s all happening in that area. It there some sort of Echelon installation up there?
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By jingo one would think that such an installation was above my place with the amount of activity over or near it. Mrs Azimuth is in the garden at the moment, if she finds an underground base whilst digging I’ll let all know. :lol: :lol:
But seriously it does make one wonder what is going on. There seems to be several areas around the country experiencing the same thing, Nelson for instance.
I have a reply re the "Hole Punch Cloud" which I will post separately.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Carus
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 352
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:24 pm Post Subject: |
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:lol:
Just look out for one of those round white thingys.
Carus |
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Bloodhound
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:01 pm Post Subject: |
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wow, that has to be H.A.A.R.P
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:18 pm Post Subject: |
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On the 26 March 2005 I emailed the MetService enquiring about how these “Hole Punch Clouds” are formed.
Second email:
Bob,
Thank you for the quick response. I had already read that BBC article. To
the best of my knowledge there was no air traffic over the area prior to
this occurring.
I thought you may have an opinion or theory as to why these are formed!
Whilst doing some research I located the Met Society Web site and have this
morning entered a couple of images including the Hole Punch Cloud from up
here. No doubt they will be posted after Easter.
Thank you for your time. Kindest Regards
(Me)
Here is the reply I received;
I don't think we have enough information yet about hole-punch clouds to understand them well.
I agree that the idea of it being triggered by air traffic does not always apply.
I think the processes involved are evaporation sublimation and condensation...
That somehow a region in an altocumulus cloud , full of supercooled cloud droplets in a slightly subzeroC environment turn to ice (sublime) and, in the resultant drop in buoyancy, fall towards earth. Upon encountering warmer air this falling sheet (virga) melt/condense and turn back again into watery cloud drops. This is a different take on proceedings from the BBC site -there the process identified is evaporation.
Still requires more research, but since there may be no commercial application it may be hard finding a willing investor/research provider.
Cheers from
Bob McDavitt
Bob McDavitt, MetService Weather Ambassador
I would like to take this opportunity to personally and publicly thank Bob for his prompt, professional response and the courtesy he afforded me by his reply. Let’s hope suitable funding is located to conduct further research into such phenomena. If you read this thanks again Bob.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:59 pm Post Subject: |
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Scott Stevens has just added a new section to his website "weatherwars" dealing with cloud Holes. Some great images and commentary on negative ion energy and Ionization technology.
http://www.weatherwars.info/
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:12 am Post Subject: |
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That's a very good article. This passage is particularly interesting, coming from a weather expert:
"Spotting activity in clouds is but one aspect of this global war. Evidence can be gleaned from satellite imagery; weather service doppler radars frequently give up these scalar secrets too. Contrails and chemtrails, without question, are a big part of this game. There must be aspects as yet unknown; that some curious mind will share with us as this war game develops further and as more eyes are opened and see. It must be understood by all that the entirety of this planet's atmospheric weather processes are now controlled. All of it, completely 24/7/365!"
It also possibly sums up the relevance of the various anomalous sky phenomena of all kinds being documented by visitors to this site... |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:24 am Post Subject: |
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Melody,
Yes that passage says it all. I want to spend a lot more time re-reading the articles.
I particularly enjoyed the superb photos and the explanatory notes.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:03 pm Post Subject: |
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In response to additional questions that I put to Mr Bob McDavitt, the MetService Weather Ambassador about the “Hole Punch Cloud” phenomena he further said that;
| Quote: | Identifying the processes at work is reasonably easy, but the main question is WHAT TRIGGERS THEM and I do not have an answer to that.
I agree that they are not all triggered by aircraft, and in fact we have no proof that any are triggered by aircraft. Since we do have reasonable evidence that these are recent phenomenon (because none have been reported last century to my knowledge), this tends to suggest something recent. Crop circles are a recent prank and there are many willing to offer weird imagined explanations for these. The circular hole suggests something mechanised in the trigger or some sort of point source.
The "weatherwars" site seems to offer some interesting explanations, but all I can say is that the cause of whole punch clouds needs more study.
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In reply to general questions I put to Mr McDavitt about “contrail” formation and why they persist for long periods, this is what he had to say:
| Quote: | As for contrails --- these occur when the air aloft is cold enough to condense the emission vapour from aircraft. There are more aircraft over NZ now and hence more contrails. Yes they can turn a clear sky into a cloudy sky--- this happens all the time in northern hemisphere. I read somewhere that sunshine over US improved dramatically during the 4-day flight-ban after 11sept 2001.
Persistence... well once the water vapour within the vapour condenses and sublimes it turns clear air into cloudy air. The cloudy air can reflect the sunshine. The ice crystals that form act as a base on which more ice crystals can grow --- even tho the water vapour in the air at that level is very thin .. And so the clouds grow.
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Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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info4
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:19 pm Post Subject: |
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| These hole punch clouds are amazing to look at that's for sure regardless of how they are formed. I am looking at one outside my lounge window while writing this post. I notice how the cloud appears to form around the hole. Very strange indeed. Basically it looks very much like every other one on this forum . I cant say I have ever seen them before so this must be a new phenomenon. |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:10 am Post Subject: |
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Hi info4,
yes they are amazing things to witness alright. By chance did you manage to get any pix of it?
Carus and lyra got some great pix this after noon.
https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=198
Plus check out the image by Carus a lyra in the photo gallery.
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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info4
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:29 pm Post Subject: |
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| No photo's this time. While I was writing the post in actually started to close and there was fading light. Next time I guess :) |
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Administrator
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 70
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:47 pm Post Subject: |
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| Azimuth wrote: | info4,
bad luck about the photos, like you say, next time. I was talking to someone down that way who said the cloud display was beautiful, a "mackerel sky" was how it was described.
Would loved to have been there. What was the sunset like, spectacular?
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth
_________________
“Oh my goodness, the sky is falling! I must go and tell the King.”
Chicken Little |
[Original reply posted by Azimuth accidentally moved to another topic by Administrator] |
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info4
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:36 pm Post Subject: |
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| Yes very spectacular. Lovely orange colours with this weird looking cloud cover |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 1:29 am Post Subject: |
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From the previous post of: Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:03 am
Comments from a meteorologist on the possible trigger of Hole Punch Clouds:
| Quote: | The circular hole suggests something mechanised in the trigger or some sort of
point source |
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Hmmmm, mechanised:
1. To equip with machinery: mechanize a factory.
2. To equip (a military unit) with motor vehicles, such as tanks and trucks.
3. To make automatic or unspontaneous; render routine or monotonous.
4. To produce by or as if by machines.
Hmmmm, point source:
A source of radiation (as light) that is concentrated at a point and considered as having no spatial extension.
Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
http://www.m-w.com
?
^A^===============
Keep Looking Up
Azimuth |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 1:43 am Post Subject: |
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| Hmmm - indeed.... |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:11 pm Post Subject: |
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Twin Hole Punch Clouds photo’d at Whatawhata
| Quote: | Ron Ovendon, NIWA
All photographs this week are by Ron Ovendon. He spotted these stunning cloud formations on Tuesday 18 October 2005 while working at Whatawhata Research Station which is on the Hamilton side of the Raglan Divide.
'I have never seen anything quite like these structures before and have worked outside a lot and been a sky watcher for nearly 40 years.'
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Source http://www.metvuw.com/index.php
MetVuw Photo of the week 25 October 2005. Ron captured several images of this rare phenomena which can be viewed at the above link. Great photos, well done Ron.
Regards
Azimuth |
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Melody Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:23 pm Post Subject: |
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Interesting Azimuth - thanks for that :-) They are stunning photos alright. Same day as the big single persistent trail seen in Auckland and the one seen at Te Papa in Wellington. The following day seemed to be a pretty active day in the lower North Island too...
Check out Hadleigh's photos taken on the 18th in the Wanganui region also...
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/photogallery/thumbnails.php?album=44
This picture of Hadleigh's is interesting and has, I think, similarities:
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John Anderson
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:00 pm Post Subject: |
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Well done for spotting these pics Azimuth,
That is the most mysterious series of NZ cloud images that I've ever seen. Everyone on this forum should check them out while they're still there...
http://www.metvuw.com/index.php
It would be great to have these pics in our gallery. :) |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:04 pm Post Subject: |
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Hi Mel,
| Melody Anderson wrote: | | Same day as the big single persistent trail seen in Auckland and the one seen at Te Papa in Wellington. |
Good point, also many PCT's up here on the 18th as well.
^A^===============
.....................Azimuth |
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Azimuth
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:17 pm Post Subject: |
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Hi John,
| John Anderson wrote: | | That is the most mysterious series of NZ cloud images that I've ever seen. |
I agree. A very rare phenomena, beautifully captured. Strange that we should have several instances of these “hole punch clouds” occurring this year from Northland to the South Island?
^A^===============
.....................Azimuth |
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