Mysteries, Chemtrails, Aerosols :: Mysterious NZ

[smashdracs]

On the 8th of March 2011 the Royal Society of New Zealand hosted a conference to discuss the scientific, technological and geopolitical aspects of Geo-Engineering schemes and their implications for New Zealand. http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/2010/09/15/geo-engineering-implications-a...
Geo-engineering has been described as a DELIBERATE LARGE SCALE INTERVENTION IN THE EARTHS SYSTEMS.
The featured speakers were:
Professor Philip Boyd of NIWA
Dr Mike Harvey also from NIWA
Professor Jim Jones from Massey University
Dr Cliff Law
Professor Lionel Carter of Victoria University Wellington

The conference was focused on using “complex decision making tools” to evaluate different geological schemes. The tool they were using is called 1000Minds: http://www.1000minds.com/

The conference was based around the idea that the planet is rapidly warming due to increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere and “man-made Global Warming, which will result in catastrophe for the whole world, and what the possible and preferable solutions may be to remedy this problem.
There is a fierce debate about the validity of claims surrounding anthropogenic global warming and the role of CO2 in climate change

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.openureyes.org.nz/blog/?q=node/3498

[smashdracs]

It took a very long time to report back on this because I was unsure of how to present it and what approach I was going to take with it amongst other things such as being distracted by my brother being caught up in the Japan crisis.
I hope it was all worth it....

[steve clougher]

this six-minute video from smashdrac's site, is worth a squizz, especially for anyone who is unclear about the difference between an ordinary contrail, and a chemtrail, and it's full of good pointers, as well
http://www.openureyes.org.nz/blog/

[Ross Marsden]

Oh, right! I see the difference now! (sarcasm, BTW)

There must be some quality of the air that actually PREVENTS the contrail from dissipating. This has to be a quality that is there at some levels, and not at others. I feel sure it is something that can be measured.

What do you all think about this idea?

[openeyes]

Hi Ross

Are you telling me that what I see in that 6:22 video are ALL contrails?
i.e. not aerosols.
Am I understanding correctly?

What are they if they are not?

Regards.

[Ross Marsden]

Yes, that is what I am telling you; it appears to me that they are ALL contrails, or were formed from contrails.

What you mean by "aerosols". Based on the definition, a cloud is an aerosol.

If they are not contrails, what else would they be?

[steve clougher]

when i look at a clear night sky,
i see a lot of little sheep up there
they are small and white and dotted around,
what else would they be?
contrails are in a different class from chemtrails
contrails are formed by the occurrence of supersaturation with respect to ice, and tend to form in the same way all the time, a little further behind the aeroplane than chemtrails, in general, and disperse, generally, at a familiar rate
chemtrails are less homogenous in type, but are generally many orders heavier in appearance, and often are formed under conditions which do not support the formation of contrails, even at a higher altitude
welcome, openeyes

[openeyes]

My understanding of a contrail is that is was the condensation from the jet engine freezing due to the high altitude and would then generally dissipate...as ice won't stay as ice in our atmosphere for long.
(perhaps i have just paraphrased what you have said, Steve.)

The trails in that video seem to get wider, form what looks like a fine mist and they do not look organic.
This leads me to believe that contrails and chemtrails are two different things.

When the persistent trail comes over Christchurch (running south to north) one in the morning, usually, then sometimes one in the evening, a fine cloud will take over the sky and get in the way of the setting sun.
There are also more trails happening all day, usually, running parallel to the southern alps.

I've noticed that the majority of trails are happening where the most sunlight hours occur. Marlborough, Northland.
It does look like to me that the artificial cloud is blocking something. Not sure if its blocking people from seeing something or getting their much needed D3.

I can't overlook the fact that monsanto have made an aluminum resistant seed...

Perhaps a testing plane could fly up right after the trail has been formed and grab some samples of the air and the particles that are about while it is being observed from the ground to see what the trail is doing. ie melting or becoming a super cloud. :roll:

[Ross Marsden]

[steve clougher]

sounds right Ross, that the contrails cannot evaporate under conditions of high RH (what does this stand for)
however, i well remember persistent contrails from the days of 707s over the Waikato, there were persistent contrails, which extended over the sky, before slowly dissapating into a crystal blue sky
something has fundamentally changed in the last dozen years or so, which is not credibly explained away, in terms of increased air traffic, or new types of engines

i have seen thick, fluffy trails laid behind jets which were flying at seriously low altitude, like a few thousand feet, while other jets at 25-30 thousand feet, were leaving no trails at all, moreover, these jets have flown paths which have been out of character, sometimes grossly, like ninety degrees from the usual, sometimes more subtly, like deviating to pass over towns, a very strange action, given normal civil air protocols
moreover, there have been anomolies of a congruent nature, which were more common by far, than what you could call the normal, easily explained variety
moreover, planes of the same kind, but belonging to specific airlines, have behaved differently trails, for example, Virgin and Qantas on heavy trail days, always left trails, and no other airlines, during those days

there is also the research done on airconditioning filters in California, which demonstrates an exponential increase in aluminium, and barium, starting from around the time when these huge fluffy chemtrails were first observed

unpalatable as it may be, it seems we are being subjected to a spraying campaign

i live mostly outdoors, and have travelled a lot lately, and the patterns i have seen, with respect to trails, leaves absolutely no doubt, moreover my conclusions are peer-assessed, and held to be sound science

[Ross Marsden]

http://www.abbreviations.com/abbreviations/RH/1 gives 356 possibilities for the abbreviation "RH", but in the context of clouds, evaporation, water vapour and so on, Relative Humidity seems the most likely. In fact, that is what I meant.

What you recall of B707 contrails is exactly what we see today, but some people are calling them "chemtrails". Nothing material has changed except traffic density and jet engine efficiency.

[steve clougher]

Maybe you're too young to remember, Ross, but what we're seeing now is absolutely exponentially different to what we saw a couple of decades ago. Persistent contrails were pencil thin, and stayed that way, in comparison to the dispersal into oily cloud cover we get now

The evenly spaced trail lines i saw in north-east Victoria for four years, completely defied the laws of probability, and the incidence of thick trails coming from planes flying significantly lower than planes giving out no visible trails, also fell outside the possible explanation of temperature inversion layers

Added to this, the correlation of chemtrail activity with approaching rain on the radar, and the subsequent disappearance of the rain, well before it hit the mountains, gave the unavoidable impression that chemtrail activity was interfering with natural weather, and in fact, causing or exacerbating the ten-year drought

You may find it helpful to look into some of the other material available on the net, which provides very compelling supporting evidence for this

[Ross Marsden]

The trails today... some are pencil-thin, and some are wider.
See: http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/photos-of-chemtrails-over-stratford-taranaki-on-april-14-and-21
The spreading depends on wind shear across the trail.

Why do you think evenly spaced lines completely defy the laws of probability. Which particular law is "defied"?

The parallel lines are caused this way:
Plane flies by, leaving a trail.
The wind displaces the trail off track.
By and by, another plane comes along, also leaving a trail.
The wind displaces the trail off track.
And so on....

There is nothing chancy about this at all. It is a fairly obvious result of air traffic and wind direction.
See the parallel lines in the example linked above. (I really like it when I can illustrate chemtrail debunk points using material posted on chemtrail conspiracy sites.)

Contrail conditions improve as weather approaches, especially cold fronts; this is fairly well known.

Ah, yes, suspicion of interference with the weather. Hard to prove either way. I doubt it; the trails evaporate eventually, or become part of the cirrus deck.

Contrails from low-flying plains? I will need to see photos of this. However, I don't think so, except in the Polar regions. You see, it depends on temperature (mostly).

Thanks for your advice about seeking further material. What is this "net" you speak of? Is it like a trap or something?

[openeyes]

I have witnessed on a few occasions the trails stopping then starting again. The same flight path, from the same aircraft.

Another way to describe it would be as if there was and on/off switch.

Is there another weather phenomenon I am not aware of?

[ruapaka]

(clear throat sound) - what about one of my recent posts ... I was expecting/hoping for a response or two as I think it is 'significantly odd' - you know, one of those things that make you think 'what's that about?'. .I am interested to read what reason the likes of R Marsden might give. An appropriate reference for this discussion.

8 April 2011 - Marlborough.
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10384#10384

[Ross Marsden]

Luckily I have the likeness, so ruapaka will be interested to read this.

I think the two planes are at different altitudes, despite that they look to be at the same height. At different heights there could be RH conditions sufficiently different that the trails would have a variation in appearance.

I wonder if ruapaka thought of this at the time and further thought to test the hypothesis by moving a few hundred metres either way perpendicularly to the direction of the trail to see what happens with the parallax.

As to the gap where the trail apparently switched off... The plane would have been seen to be continuously making a contrail, but after a while part of it dissipated. That is because the air in the dissipated part is relatively dry. In the other parts of the trail the air is ice-supersaturated and the contrail ice just cannot evaporate.

Sometimes the contrail actually stops and restarts in its formation. That is also to do with a local change in RH to the extent that the mixture of this air and the exhaust don't quite reach water saturation. It is slightly different to the other situation, but after a minute or two the appearance is the same - a gap.

I hope this is a useful explanation. The important thing to realise is that there can be large variations in RH both vertically and horizontally. Temperature not so much in the horizontal, but certainly in the vertical.

[steve clougher]

Well, Ross, there is a scientific explanation for everything!

I have photos of a large jet doing a circuit pattern at a few thousand feet, exuding copious trail material

I have photos of trails left at low altitude by a group of planes flying in a weird pattern

I have photos of planes flying in pairs and groups of three and four, with a small differential in the time of their passage, and a large, measured differential in their lateral displacement, such that three or four trails appear to be exactly evenly spaced, far more improbably, than that they should appear to be unevenly spaced.....though uneven spacing also occurred, the exactly even events were far more common than could be expected, unless their even spacing was calculated

now i am living in Tasmania, and see chemtrails only rarely, and never yet in the sort of concentration that gives rise to the oily overcast that most of us now recognise as a new thing within the last dozen years

however, i did see this overcast generated over Lightning Ridge, where the air is much dryer and warmer

i wonder if the addition of impurities into the air could possibly have the effect of allowing the air to hold onto its moisture?

please correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the principle of rain-seeding based on the introduction of iodide crystals into the atmosphere, to hasten precipitation?

could there be an additive that produces the opposite effect?

[Ross Marsden]

How do you conclude that there is a scientific explanation for everything? I gave explanations for 2 possibly 3 observations related to contrails. Sheesh.

Hey, I could have photos of my brother shaking ... fore-limbs (shall we call them) ... with a reptilian looking alien. Let's see your photos.

There is an explanation of cloud seeding here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
You are more or less correct.

Is there a substance that prevents ice nucleation of supercooled water? I don't know of anything that could do that.

[steve clougher]

Hey, go easy on the reptilian-looking alien
That might be my brother

Photos coming, when i access stuff in storage, and when i shall have learned how to pop them up on this site

[Crakka]