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muttongun
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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ruapaka
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:49 am Post Subject: |
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Hi muttongun ... thanks for the link.
I read this a few days ago ... what I found interesting is that RAC is familiar with Ross Marsden .... his comment sounds like the slurp of a tongue caressing Ross' anal-ysis.
Another thing that I found interesting ....
Ross said
| Quote: | | There is a contrail in the upper left (labelled NZ152) oriented more or less west-east. I think this was made by Air New Zealand Flight NZ152 which arrived in Wellington at 2:30 pm that afternoon from Melbourne. |
buzzzzzzzz ... wrong! He is usually quite pedantic about information - or, he pretends to be. I watched that trail forming ... it was heading westward. If he had taken a closer look at the trail itself he could have determined direction ... or, he could have checked out the flights ... but, he didn't. Tsk Tslk. Some folk would have us believe anything ... sheeeez, I dunno!! :roll: |
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muttongun
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:26 pm Post Subject: |
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| Yea its crap alright, I am glad to live down in Southland where we dont get any trails of any sort, that Ive ever seen anyway. |
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RAC
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:03 pm Post Subject: |
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I was going to mention the west bound plane to ross but though whats the point as its just a west bound plane that came from wellington airport so its not a big deal ist it.
Its all crap is it? |
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RAC
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:02 pm Post Subject: |
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| muttongun wrote: | | Yea its crap alright, I am glad to live down in Southland where we dont get any trails of any sort, that Ive ever seen anyway. |
Would you like to point out to Ross what bit of info on the metservice blog is crap please. I'm sure he would correct anything if it is wrong. |
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muttongun
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:14 pm Post Subject: |
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| crap |
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RAC
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:02 pm Post Subject: |
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Could you please point out what is crap about it. |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:21 am Post Subject: |
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Sometimes ignoring pests completely is the best policy... :wink:
| Milutiche wrote: | | I like...getting into pointless arguments... |
'Nuff said.
(also the reason why the vast majority of members with proper maturity for their age simply choose to ignore this petty, little "self-appointed" nuisance - kinda like how you swat a mosquito, don't quite kill it but just leave it there to carry on with the occasional buzz of its wings in futile hope as it slowly & inevitably dies...) |
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RAC
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:26 am Post Subject: |
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| Do you have job Crakka if so what do you do? |
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Milutiche
Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:33 am Post Subject: |
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| Crakka wrote: | Sometimes ignoring pests completely is the best policy... :wink:
| Milutiche wrote: | | I like...getting into pointless arguments... |
'Nuff said.
(also the reason why the vast majority of members with proper maturity for their age simply choose to ignore this petty, little "self-appointed" nuisance - kinda like how you swat a mosquito, don't quite kill it but just leave it there to carry on with the occasional buzz of its wings in futile hope as it slowly & inevitably dies...) |
But I predicted a chemtrail! surely you would want to take notice of someone with these abilitys.
Maturity? all you do is try to discredit me by questioning my grammar and motives. Look at the photos Crakka, the photos we took yesterday, Air NZ creating a trail, contact Rob Fyfe, ask him what they are doing up there? |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:43 am Post Subject: |
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muttongun
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:57 pm Post Subject: |
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| thats a cracker , crakka |
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Niksta
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 306
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:18 pm Post Subject: |
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Anyone remember Fantasy Island?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island
Tattoo would run up the main bell tower to ring the bell and shout "The plane! The plane!"
Tattoo being a bent little man.
Ray Against Chemtrails and Jason and the Auto-naughts remind me of this. :D
Well it's good to know that a mystery subject that has google saying "About 8,260,000 results (0.35 seconds) " is cleared up!
Move along folks nothing to see, just get a good enough camera you to will see and behold the safe world we live in where "The Courts" are the good fullahs.
Anyhoo a final thanks to these to sticky beaks for all the laughs before we all follow the example set by the mighty Crakka and /ignore :lol: |
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muttongun
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:45 am Post Subject: |
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| :lol: |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:55 am Post Subject: |
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'Twas fun while it lasted guys but alas all good things come to an end ie. don't think you'll be seeing any replies from that/those twat(s) again anytime soon lol! Thanks for the Fantasy Island flashback too Niksta - I was just parroting Tattoo's call to somebody the other week actually! 8) Oh and just to rub a little salt in an already old & festering wound... yet another freudian slip anyone?
| Milutiche wrote: | | all you do is try to discredit me by questioning my grammar... |
As my recall is fairly good, especially for things in the immediate past, it was very clearly RAC's vicious raping of vocabulary that I so rightly accosted... :wink:
Oh well, back to business in the real world... have a great week people :) |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:07 am Post Subject: |
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Oh, just one more thing before I forget... thanks for the chuckle this comment produced when I first read it too ruapaka!
| ruapaka wrote: | | ... what I found interesting is that RAC is familiar with Ross Marsden .... his comment sounds like the slurp of a tongue caressing Ross' anal-ysis. |
Absolutely spot on matey! :wink: Was even going to say right from the outset that if these brown-nosed initiates were hoping get recruited or dare I say promoted from the "bottom" level they would obviously inhabit, they haven't got a hope in hell (no puns intended)! :twisted: |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:44 pm Post Subject: |
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Here's what I find the most interesting about that page...
Has Milutiche forgotten to change his tag back from RAC? Or did he simply post under RAC's name? It appears to be quite a mystery as to how RAC's grammar miraculously corrected itself from almost unreadable as seen in most of his posts here to what is seen above!!! :shock: Reminds me of that dude in Lady In The Water who lost his stutter every time he was in the presence of the water nymph - maybe bathing in the glow of his meteorological deity temporarily eradicates RAC's severe grammar affliction?! :mrgreen: |
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ruapaka
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:35 am Post Subject: |
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Mmmmm .... you could be onto something there Crakka.
Yet ANOTHER INTERESTING thing is Ross Marsden's response to RAC's attempt at engaging intelligent relevant dialogue .... buzzzzzz ... RAC was wrong with his application of the 'science facts' and was duly corrected.
Ross response to RAC
| Quote: | | The biggest drop in pressure is over the main part of the wing, not the trailing edge. |
(RAC and/or Milutiche will be learning about the pompous personality they are schmoozing with. ..... there can be only one - in Ross' world.) |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:51 pm Post Subject: |
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:wink: :mrgreen:
And so I repeat this K'ung Ch'iu (Confucius) quote (in normal font size this time) -
"The ancient scholars studied for their own improvement. Modern scholars study to impress others."
(Not that I'm suggesting for a second that our recently KIA pest(s) is/are approaching anything near "scholarly"!)
Anywayz... by no means an absolute or infallible source of wisdom (superior man/inferior man, perfection, knowing one's proper role, etc, etc), there's tons of well-known quotes attributed to this Confucius guy and here's but a few more (applicable ones) to pad out my post -
"He who learns but does not think, is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger."
"Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue."
"Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated."
"It is better to play than do nothing."
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
And of course, my favourite -
"Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day!" \:D/ |
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schadow2012
Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 147
Location: sunny northland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:08 pm Post Subject: |
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| couldnt resist this: "man flying upside down in plane likely to have balls up" ... :lol: |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:45 am Post Subject: |
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| :mrgreen: |
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ruapaka
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:20 pm Post Subject: |
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Update ...
Ross Marsden has read this thread and posted this on his blog .... my response follows.
| Quote: |
August 12th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Certain facts in my article above have been questioned by a member of the exclusive Mysterious New Zealand forum.
In a post on Friday 6 August 2010, Senior Member raupaka quotes me saying, “There is a contrail in the upper left (labelled NZ152) oriented more or less west-east. I think this was made by Air New Zealand Flight NZ152 which arrived in Wellington at 2:30 pm that afternoon from Melbourne.”
Then he says, “buzzzzzzzz … wrong! He is usually quite pedantic about information – or, he pretends to be. I watched that trail forming … it was heading westward. If he had taken a closer look at the trail itself he could have determined direction … or, he could have checked out the flights … but, he didn’t. Tsk Tslk. Some folk would have us believe anything … sheeeez, I dunno!!"
At the time, I used some contacts in the travel industry to find out what the trans-Tasman movements were from Wellington. Now, to check this more carefully since it is being questioned, I obtained the international movements at Wellington Airport that day, Monday 19 July 2010.
Here are all the westbound flights to Australia from Wellington; the times are in NZST:
6:00AM NZ151 to MEL A320
6:00AM QF118 to SYD B737-400
6:45AM NZ145 to SYD A320
7:15AM DJ67 to BNE B737
3:00PM QF38 to MEL B737-400
3:35PM NZ163 to BNE A320
4:05PM QF48 to SYD B737-400
The morning ones are all too early for that MODIS image which was obtained at 2:20PM, and the afternoon ones are too late. Any contrail they produced would not be in a sattelite image aquired at the time this one was. So that east-west contrail could not be from any of these westbound aircraft.
Here are all the eastbound flights to Wellington from Australia on 19 July 2010:
12:05AM NZ166 from BNE A320
2:00PM QF47 from SYD B737-400
2:30PM NZ152 from MEL A320
2:35PM NZ142 from SYD A320
3:10PM QF37 from MEL B737-400
11:20PM DJ68 from BNE B737
11:55PM DJ56 from SYD B737
11:59PM QF117 from SYD B737-400
The only plausible candidates are QF47 or NZ142 from Sydney, or NZ152 from Melbourne. The alignment of the contrail is consistent with it being from the Melbourne flight. The arrival time of the Melbourne flight is consistent with the trail being captured in that MODIS image.
The appearance of parts of a contrail in satellite image is more dependant on the amount of wind shear affecting those parts than their relative age. Since we don’t know much about the wind structure out there, and in particular how it may vary along the trail, nothing can be deduced from the trail’s appearance about the direction the aircraft was travelling.
I think that’s pedantic enough. I’m pretty sure that the east-west trail is from NZ152. |
Source:
http://blog.metservice.com/2010/07/spectacular-contrail-outbreak-over-wellington
I humbly apologise for my blunder ... I thought the MODIS image for the 19 July included the westbound PT I captured on camera later in the day – 4:38pm being the first shot I got after getting the camera positioned (say 3 mins max.). As the time of the MODIS image was given as 2:20pm, the trail Ross refers to is an earlier one, and I accept his guess at which flight formed the trail. I was a bit eager to take the proverbial p... – there was a bit of a breeze and I tinkled on my shoes. :oops:
With my apology out of the way .... (and hoping not to have to do it again too soon) ... I am wondering which flight left the trail I posted for 19 July (the one I thought was in the MODIS image) ... 4:35pm – westbound – over the north side of the lower Pelorus Valley, (ref. link).
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?p=9751#9751
Ross was provided with a list of flights (as quoted above) - which aircraft left the PT I photographed and where did it come from? If explainable, all good ... if not, then glad I asked.
Another query I have re the MODIS image ... I was pretty vigilant on that day, (what with RAC and Milutiche’s comments around that time), ... I did not observe PTs over my location between 1:45pm and 4:35pm. I took photos around 2:30pm of the cirrus chaos, yet I did not capture any of the trails, or remnants thereof in the MODIS image – with some of those trails being over my location.
Ross’ statement about wind sheer as a factor making determining the trail direction very difficult – I disagree. Logically, the fresher part of the trail will show less effects (wind or otherwise) - the longer the trail lingers the more effects ... so ... the less effected end will determine direction ... unless, it is only a trail segment. ... which brings more questions to mind ...(shift to sarcasm here) which will bring more explanations of variables ... which then brings thoughts of ‘how can these people be so adamant about their opinions when those opinions are based on ‘science facts’ that include so many variables?’. Back to Ross’ statement, I have not experienced any real difficulty determining direction of trails – the older and expanded PTs take a bit more than a glance, yet I’m confident I get it right.
PS for RAC .... can you let Ross Marsden know of this post and my apology, cheers. |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:13 am Post Subject: |
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Thanks for posting that ruapaka. Always good to read your stuff and reassuring again that it's a regular poster from this forum that has no trouble whatsoever admitting to be being - human :wink: Something an egotist and an outright liar would just cover up with more lies and justify with "science facts" 8)
On a related note - I still don't think anyone's ever going to be able to answer factually the older, experienced & very observant surfer/fisherman/farmer question about why these trails have only been so prevalent in their daily-observed environment for just over a decade and were just about never seen before that... :wink: |
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secondfield
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:06 pm Post Subject: |
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| Well it begs the question, with so many flights that day, why was only ONE aircraft PT visible? even with irregular sat passovers, I feel more should have been drifiting in Parallell or leaving visible traces. . . |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:50 pm Post Subject: |
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| Yep, we all know the age-old drill by now. Most of the "answers" are for the ignorant to digest :wink: In most cases the questions stop after a while - remember that Thomas Dolby song back in the 80s "She blinded me with..."? Was the next word bullscheise or science? Been a while since I heard that one 8) |
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ruapaka
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:22 am Post Subject: |
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Update ...
Here is Ross' response to my apology and comments.
August 16th, 2010 at 8:10 am
| Quote: |
Apology accepted.
About determining the contrail direction from its appearance:
raupaka disagrees with my paragraph above about this where I said, “The appearance of parts of a contrail in satellite image[s] …” etc.
The relative age of the ends of a contrail can only be judged from spreading (alone) if you assume that the wind shear is the same all the way along.
Determining direction from the progression of diffusion is another matter. The rate of diffusion will be more or less the same all the way among, and at any point the amount will depend on the age.
Diffusion cannot be observed in satellite images; from the ground it is readily assessed and a direction determination can usually be made from such observations, as raupaka says.
My comments in my previous comment only apply to satellite observations.
I hope this is clear enough now. |
I was hoping for some response/reaction to my queries regarding flight details for the PT image I posted. Ross selected what he would respond to - no point-by-point shoot-em-up response that I was expecting - ammo shortage? Selective documentation?
...which aircraft left the PT I photographed and where did it come from? If explainable, all good ... if not, then glad I asked. |
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Crakka
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1853
Location: The Wild West
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:50 pm Post Subject: |
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| Well he's just joined under his own name so I foresee exactly what I saw coming with that/those other timewaster(s) - screeds & screeds of time being spent on arguing pedantically but not actually getting anywhere or really addressing the "issues" like why these things are only prevalent now and for the last 12 or so years (although I think maybe less in NZ), etc but not before. I for one won't be sucked down that vortex knowing what I know and especially knowing people who've lived in the US & Europe most of their lives who are seeing what's been going on in their neck of the woods on a daily basis for the same period of time. Thanks again for posting though ruapaka and keeping us abreast :wink: |
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Ross Marsden
Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:03 pm Post Subject: |
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| ruapaka wrote: |
...which aircraft left the PT I photographed and where did it come from? If explainable, all good ... if not, then glad I asked. |
My reply was about correcting raupaka's misunderstanding of what I said about the apparance of contrails in satellite images. I left the question about what flight it was he photographed unanswered because the answer seemed obvious from the list of scheduled international departures from Wellington that afternoon.
I think the flight raupaka photographed at 4:35pm when it was over Pelorus Valley was flight QF48 to Sydney, a B737-400. |
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Ross Marsden
Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:29 pm Post Subject: |
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It's my turn to apologise now. I have misspelled ruapaka's name... twice. I am sorry about that - unforgivable, really.
I wonder if he'll be back to read my answer, or perhaps to ask another question. |
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ruapaka
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:28 pm Post Subject: |
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Ross ... mistakes are made (sure that's you Ross?), no offense - no worries.
Ross (or anyone with some idea) ... how long would it take an international plane to get over the Pelorus Sound / Valley from Wellington? |
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