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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:45 pm Post Subject: Chemtrail over the tasman.
I spotted one of your chemtrails sitting well to the west of NZ.
Whats it doing over there?
If you use a little logic it is there because the atmospheric conditions suited the formation of a persistent contrail behind a passanger plane going to or from NZ, it is right next to a portion of natural cirrus cloud. There may even be two there but one is clearly seen
Youre a strange one RAC, one can tell virtually nothing from such a picture, it is likely a normal aircraft on a common trip between here and Aus, as I have said to you before nobody is denying that aircraft dont leave emissions in certain conditions, some leave persistant trails, some evaporate quickly and for many there are no emissions at all. So what are you attempting to prove here?
So lets take the 19 of july as an example as ruapaka has photos of them from the grond claiming them to be something else,
"I caught view of the westbound plane/trail between clouds and thought it was a contrail, but it persisted ... "
Going by what you have just said Deano then these are also contrails. Or has ruapaka got some sort of chem sesnor in his head and he can tell the difference?
By the way their emissions is a constant no matter where they are its the contrails that changes behavior due to atmospheric conditions.
RAC - you just want to see your words in print .... you are claiming stuff from your head - not mine. I have made a point not to use the word 'chemtrail' in my postings - unless it is used as reference when others use 'chemtrails'.
RAC rambled: (good nickname - Ramblin' Rac)
Quote:
So lets take the 19 of july as an example as ruapaka has photos of them from the grond claiming them to be something else,
What was I claiming? ... that it was a PT? .... sooooooo ????? Do you not agree? Deano's right ... what the f.... is your point here. AND STOP looking at those satellite images - there are no bloody planes in those shots, what are you doing? LOL
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:15 am Post Subject:
LMFAO! Another useless, timewasting but nonetheless mildly entertaining episode of The Rank Amateur Debunking Show! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :mrgreen: This/these guy/guys are great for a chuckle morning, noon & night... 8)
LMFAO! Another useless, timewasting but nonetheless mildly entertaining episode of The Rank Amateur Debunking Show! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :mrgreen: This/these guy/guys are great for a chuckle morning, noon & night... 8)
Is only useless if you are not interested in using it,
most Trans tasman planes travel at about 200-250m/s, each pixel in the MODIS image = 250 meters, if the trail is 150 pixels long it would be ? ? ? yep you got it 250 X 150 = 37,500 meters long or 37.5km and the start end on the trail would have been there at least 2:30 minutes
based on a plane traveling at 720kph
Just a bit of useless maths because we don't know for certain if it's a contrail or if it is how fast the plane was traveling.
One thing that has poped up from uses here is there seems to be the belief that there is short contrails, persistent contrails and maybe chemtrails. I see a problem with the visual difference between a persistent contrail and a supposed chemtrail.
Some people claim they can tell how high a plane is by looking at it with their eyes. This just doesn't work no mater who you are and how many planes you've seen. It does NOT work!
If you research Stratospheric geoengineering you will guickly find that the idea is to spy product into the Stratosphere, now thats 36,000 feet high at the poles and 58,000 feet at the equator.
So what we see now is that claiming that a plane is too low to make persistent contrails but is infact spraying aluminium is now contradiction to the stratospheric geoengineering idea.
Now if they were to spay something to kill us off they would want to do it at a lower altitude but as there is now photo evidence of who is spraying over Whangarei the problem needs to be taken up with that airline if you you think that it is infact spraying something.
In the case of a persitent spreading contrail you have to ask how a chemical or metal would expand and spread out without becoming ALOT more transparent. Only the growth of ice adds up with the appearance of a spreading contrail.
So what do we have out in the tasman, if its a persistent contrail where does that put the chemtrail conspiricy?
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:56 am Post Subject:
RAC wrote:
...spay something to kill us off....
You really believe that's what all skeptics think of some of the persistent trail phenomena? Think again! 8) (and please tell me you weren't thinking of neutering a female dog or cat "to kill us off"!) #-o
Now, where do we start....... here's just a very small random sampling plucked from the air. I strongly suggest you & everyone else skimming this post read everything from start to finish in the following articles (at least the first handful anyway) as all of it is relevant to this subject. I am not going to debate the issue with you as it is overwhelmingly obvious so far that neither of us is qualified enough (and probably never will be!) to wield "conclusive" evidence over the other and declare victory. Knock yourself out and add to your knowledge base in the process - no need to thank me :wink: Ok, the first one is a particularly good place to start as it includes a link to a US Govt website containing some interesting data plus many, many great links to other details & facts...
Geoengineering, the book - "Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base (1992)" (from The National Academies Press site wherein they're "About Us" info states - "The National Academies Press (NAP) was created by the National Academies to publish the reports issued by the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council, all operating under a charter granted by the Congress of the United States.")
Aaaggh, it's late, I'm tired & I haven't even scratched the surface...
RAC wrote:
Everything has an answer.
Really? Do you seriously believe there is no true mystery left at all in the world, the universe and beyond? Oh to live such an exhilarating, complete, ordered and truly (self-)satisfied life as yours! :wink: But wait! What if the answer isn't correct?! :shock: I "answered" many science questions in my exams at school and I was wrong on numerous occasions! :mrgreen: But more seriously, many, many "answers" to scientific questions over the years & decades have been successfully challenged & overturned. In fact it is the very nature (dare I...) of the scientific method to constantly question everything, something many mainstream priests, oops I mean scientists (who are paid very well btw) seem to be increasingly overlooking or deliberately steering clear of these days...
I believe there is NO mystrery surrounding a persistent contrail. If and or when they spray aluminium in our skies i will bet that it looks and behaves nothing like what we are seeing.
Cloud is a cloud and a contrail is a cloud, why do contrails spread and form cirrus cloud because it is a cirrus cloud.
What do you think aluminium would do, form a cirrus cloud because its a metal and metal forms clouds?
You can make it sound and mysterious as you like.
You live in Auckland right? The next time i photo a plane going to Auckland leaving the most spectacular spreading persistent contrail i'll let you know so you can go out to the airport and watch all the passangers get off it. No room for chem tanks as there will be pasangers on it.
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:15 pm Post Subject:
Who said anything specifically about "aluminium"? Not I said the donkey! If we're talking generally about aerosol uses it could actually be any of a wide number of agents depending on the desired effect. Do your homework hombre... official sources have told us about most of this stuff, you just won't hear about it on the 6pm TV news 8)
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:27 pm Post Subject:
And do I think all the trails I see are "chemtrails"? Like most others here - certainly not! We observe and on occasion we record. Some of those are interesting, most can probably be explained away one way or another and a few appear to be a little "odd" to people who've been watching the skies all their life. That is all. You definitely appear to have come into this forum with a very wrong & single-minded opinion about the awareness, knowledge, skill, intellect & experience of the general membership. That's all I'll say for now 8)
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:49 pm Post Subject:
Just one of many, many different examples of airborne aerosol use, this one discussed recently and publicly. Note this is discussed first as proposed but mentions the "tests" that we know have been going on for some time (validated by other official publications & articles similar to and including those listed in an above post). This article is from Tanker Enemy, an Italian "chemtrail" blog. References are included (I actually read about this conference on other sites earlier in the year).
Messing with Disaster: International Conference on Climate Intervention Technologies By Jutta Schmitt
March 30, 2010
This week, from March 22nd to March 26th, the 'Asilomar International Conference on Climate Intervention Technologies', hosted by the Climate Response Fund, is taking place in Pacific Grove, California-USA, where scientists discuss possible means to counter-balance climate change and its impacts. The kind of measures proposed to mitigate climate change pertain to the realm of geo-engineering and climate intervention techniques, and are outlined in the Conference's working agenda.(1)
The agenda itself can best be described as an array of proposals for 'disaster management', aimed at 'moderating' global climate change. Listed among the various physical science aspects of climate intervention are experiments related to Solar Radiance Engineering, which respond to 'Solar Radiation Management' or the 'management of climate change in the stratosphere and above', which test 'the potential for aerosols in the troposphere or stratosphere to limit incoming solar radiation'. Under the specific approaches for Solar Radiation Management figure the stratospheric injection of sulfate or other materials with global or regional coverage, satellite deflection of solar radiation, cloud brightening on a global or regional scale by sea salt or dimethyl sulfide (DMS) injection, 'ocean brightening' as another means to deflect solar radiation, arctic intervention and specific regional intervention relating to hurricane modification and redirection of storms, among others.
Hold on. - 'Spraying the stratosphere with sulfate or other materials'?! - 'Hurricane modification and redirection of storms'?! Until recently, suggesting that this kind of experiments were being considered in earnest by high level scientist panels or that they could already be going on as we speak, was denounced as the pathetic fantasies of global conspiracy theorists gone crazy! But now and as Copenhaguen went down the drain, all of a sudden we see the emergence of a Global Climate Crisis Management Team, ready to 'geo-engineer' us out of the mess.
Let's take a closer look at the proposed 'innovative' techniques to deflect solar radiation, especially as they've already been put into operation for quite some time. Since years, former German Greenpeace activist Werner Altnickel, who obtained the German and European Solar Prize distinctions for his alternative solar energy projects implemented successfully in his hometown, Oldenburg, has referred to the already ongoing spraying of the stratosphere with sulfate or other materials as described in the Climate Response Fund's working agenda, in terms of a chemical crime committed right above our heads, clearly visible to the public in form of the so called Chemtrails and documented in thousands of videos and photos posted on thousands of websites on the World Wide Web. (2) Altnickel warns that spraying the stratosphere with chemicals and metals (polymers, fibers, cadmium, barium, aluminium, titanium, mercury, lead (3)) is not only a highly questionable technological attempt to contain and mitigate climate change effects, but also a means to manipulate the weather and to create inductive fields, of special interest for military purposes such as enhancement or interruption of communication technologies. The spraying has taken place ever since the beginning of the nineties, with intense and wide-range Chemtrail spraying over North America and most of the Western European countries. Altnickel suspects that the US's retreat from the Kyoto Treaty under George W. Bush is in the first place due to the assumption that it is 'cheaper' for governments to spray the skies and more profitable for the companies that provide the logistics, technology and substances being sprayed, than implementing and actually sticking to regulations that effectively protect the environment. The environmental contamination as a result of the massive injection of chemicals and metals into the atmosphere and the subsequent dangers to public health by exposure to hazardous elements stand in stark contrast to the proposed 'mitigation of climate change effects'. For Altnickel, the only peaceful way that can lead to popular resistance against these contaminating and highly dangerous practices is making people aware of what is happening, furthering public knowledge and understanding of these phenomena with the help of the new communications technologies.
It is worth to note that among the chief Science Advisors of the Climate Response Fund, host of the Asilomar International Conference on Climate Intervention Technologies, are Edward A. Frieman, Research Professor, Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics, University California, San Diego and Senior Vice President of Science and Technology at the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC). (4) To our Venezuelan readers, Science Applications International Corporation is notoriously known and remembered as the Corporation which, by means of its subsidiary INTESA, owned and managed the technological and electronic components of Venezuelas State Oil Company, PDVSA, and which oversaw and conducted the electronic sabotage and shutdown of the industry's 'electronic brain' during the events of 2002-2003 that have come to be known as the management lockout and sabotage of Venezuela's industrial heart. According to a research undertaken by Donald L. Barlett and James B. Steele in March 2007, (5) SAIC is a private company, one of the main government contractors in the US, with a workforce of 44000 people and a true record of 9000 active individual government contracts with annual revenues between 8 and 12 billion dollars. The main product of the company is brainpower and expertise to guarantee 'national security':
„[...] SAIC is a body shop in the brain business. It sells human beings who have a particular expertise—expertise about weapons, about homeland security, about surveillance, about computer systems, about "information dominance" and "information warfare." If the C.I.A. needs an outside expert to quietly check whether its employees are using their computers for personal business, it calls on SAIC. If the Immigration and Naturalization Service needs new record-keeping software, it calls on SAIC. Indeed, SAIC is willing to provide expertise about almost anything at all, if there happens to be a government contract out there to pay for it—as there almost always is.“ (6)
Given the brief background sketched above with regard to the possible military applications of Solar Radiance Engineering, it is disturbing to think that the very Senior Vice President of Science and Technology at the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) is among the chief Science Advisors of the Climate Response Fund, which is hosting the Conference on Climate Intervention Technologies this week in Pacific Grove, California. The conference's commitment to take into consideration the social context of climate intervention, the international legal framework for climate intervention (ENMOD) as well as 'ethical principles' with regard to climate intervention technologies, does little to tranquilize the mind. And this is why the closing event of the conference will be a 'plenary discussion on climate change, public attitudes, the media, and insights on implications for public discourse on climate intervention / geoengineering', read a brainstorming effort to resolve the problem of how to spin-doctor the world public into accepting and approving the application of these messing-with-the-climate-disaster techniques.
The upcoming World People's Conference on Climate Change and the Rights of Mother Earth to be held in Cochabamba, Bolivia (7) from April 19th to 22nd, will definitely have to address the danger posed by this emerging 'Climate Change Management Lobby', which rather than fight the root causes of the problem seeks to mess with the disaster in multiple ways. The three basic postulates of the World People's Conference on Climate Change, that is, to determine and fight the structural causes of climate change, to live in harmony with nature and to recognize and establish the rights of Mother Earth, are fundamental pillars in what can be considered the only viable way to effectively respond to the threats to human survival. Recognizing that climate change is "a product of a model of life and development under the capitalist system that is premised on the supremacy of human beings over nature“, that it is necessary to "challenge the current system based on consumption, waste and the marketing of all aspects of life and nature", and thus demanding that the rights of Mother Earth be recognized and defended, is imperative to planetary survival. Messing around with the climate disaster and exploiting it for the sake of making profit from new climate intervention technologies and techniques, surely will pave the road to hell. The World People's Conference on Climate Change must stand up against climate intervention technologies, geoengineering and global environmental warfare.
And do I think all the trails I see are "chemtrails"? Like most others here - certainly not! We observe and on occasion we record. Some of those are interesting, most can probably be explained away one way or another and a few appear to be a little "odd" to people who've been watching the skies all their life. That is all. You definitely appear to have come into this forum with a very wrong & single-minded opinion about the awareness, knowledge, skill, intellect & experience of the general membership.
Just what I have been thinking. Thanks Crakka :wink:
I gotta wonder about the stressing of science facts ... my understanding is that what happens in the atmospheres is based on prediction - guess work basically ... models of theory in some hard-drive somewhere.. I have read numerous times reference to the difficulties of getting good/exact data from the atmosphere(s) - so an open mind must prevail, surely..
Also, RAC, ask yourself why there is no real outcry about the damaging effects of 'innocent persisting contrails'. Not much to read about on this as a concern - what's that about? Next to no news items in mainstream media about the bad polluting planes.
Another also, RAC (which I think stands for Raymond Against Chemtrailers),
Quote:
I believe there is NO mysrery surrounding a persistent contrail. If and or when they spray aluminium in our skies i will bet that it looks and behaves nothing like what we are seeing.
Cloud is a cloud and a contrail is a cloud, why do contrails spread and form cirrus cloud because it is a cirrus cloud.
My understanding (which is limited) is there is all manner of 'debris' in our skies - naturally occurring (and some not so natural), ... particles of whatever are part of the process needed to form clouds.
Also, RAC, ask yourself why there is no real outcry about the damaging effects of 'innocent persisting contrails'. Not much to read about on this as a concern - what's that about? Next to no news items in mainstream media about the bad polluting planes. . . . . . .
Who said anything specifically about "aluminium"? Not I said the donkey! If we're talking generally about aerosol uses it could actually be any of a wide number of agents depending on the desired effect. Do your homework hombre... official sources have told us about most of this stuff, you just won't hear about it on the 6pm TV news 8)
Officaly "crazy" people are your sources that have told you stuff. Youtube is not the best learning ground Crakka.
Crakka, go buy a good camera and do some real research on these planes, something you have never done.
Something not one of you guys have ever done, why are close up pics of planes such a sure point with you guys?
Forget about all the crap that your "sources" tell you and start thinking critically about what why have in front of us.
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:31 am Post Subject:
Milutiche wrote:
I like...getting into pointless arguments...
'Nuff said.
(also the reason why the vast majority of members with proper maturity for their age simply choose to ignore this petty, little "self-appointed" nuisance - kinda like how you swat a mosquito, don't quite kill it but just leave it there to carry on with the occasional buzz of its wings in futile hope as it slowly & inevitably dies...)
(also the reason why the vast majority of members with proper maturity for their age simply choose to ignore this petty, little "self-appointed" nuisance - kinda like how you swat a mosquito, don't quite kill it but just leave it there to carry on with the occasional buzz of its wings in futile hope as it slowly & inevitably dies...)
