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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:55 am Post Subject: SKA
Looks like we are getting one here as well .... be interesting to conduct an analysis to see if the sites are geometrically / harmonically linked on the planets surface.... ill put money on it that they are..
Quote:
Rt Hon Helen ClarkPrime Minister of New Zealand Hon Kevin Rudd Prime Minister of Australia
Media Statement 19 August 2008 EMBARGOED 12 MIDDAY
Support for Australasian science initiative
New Zealand will offer strong support for Australia’s bid to host the world’s largest radio telescope, the Square Kilometre Array (SKA), the Prime Minister Helen Clark announced today.
Prime Minister Rudd warmly welcomed New Zealand support in formal bilateral talks held in Auckland.
“This 21st century project would use our region’s intellectual and data infrastructure resources to push the boundaries of scientific enquiry and exploration”, Helen Clark said.
“Hosting the SKA would be a hugely exciting development for Australasia.
“Kevin Rudd and I agreed today to establish a joint officials group to look at how New Zealand can best participate in the design and establishment of a SKA hosted by Australia.
“This group will investigate the costs and benefits of New Zealand engaging in the SKA project. There are significant commercial and technology spin-offs from world-leading science projects. We need to investigate fully what opportunities the SKA could present for New Zealand infrastructure and high technology businesses so that we can take informed decisions on New Zealand’s role,” Helen Clark said.
The Square Kilometre Array or SKA is a “next generation” radio telescope, and would be more than 50 times more sensitive than any radio telescope currently built.
If Australasia wins the global bid to host the SKA, its centre would be in Western Australia. Observatory sites thousands of kilometres from the centre (the outer spirals), including potentially in New Zealand, would be linked by high speed data connectivity.
The hosting site for the SKA will be decided in 2011/12 by global scientists. Australasia’s competitor to host the SKA is a coalition of six Southern African countries.
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:13 pm Post Subject:
Uhhh that was supposed to be "worldwide/global" in the reply above. I can't edit my own post - is there a minimum post requirement before we can do this on here or something?
If you look at the website detail, It shows a planet (represented by a spherical grid) flying through space ... maybe when they turn the key to fire it up, off we go into the 'cosmic web' (another term the guy's at SKA are fond of using).
Maybe the particle accelerator at cern is the 'engine' and the SKA array is the navigation system?? MAD MAD MAD .. :o
Anyone seen the kiwi cult classic 'the quiet earth'???
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: The Wild West
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:29 pm Post Subject:
Apologies for appearing like an incompetant spammer :shock: but after reading the FAQ that says we "can" edit our own posts I still see no edit button as stated.
Anyway... I was obviously not fully in my concious mind when I typed that first reply! My final comment should have read - "Completion date & first worldwide/global fire-up a year later on 21/2012 anyone? :shock: :twisted: "
(...maybe a mod can tidy up my mess & let me know what the rule is on self-editing :oops: )
The Square Kilometre Array, commonly known as the SKA, is a global radio astronomy project being developed on an unprecedented scale. While a radio telescope usually consists of a single dish, the completed SKA will be a single radio telescope consisting of several thousand individual dishes, all linked together as a single instrument. This is possible by building several hundred clusters, each consisting of 50 to 100 individual dishes, spaced out over hundreds of kilometres. Each cluster will be linked together with cables enabling the high-speed sharing of data. The clusters of dishes will be arranged as a concentric spiral spreading outward, as in the diagram below. The completed SKA will have a collection area equivalent to one square kilometre.
What is Radio Astronomy?
Radio astronomy is a form of astronomy carried out with telescopes that examine the low-frequency radio waves emitted by distant objects, as opposed to optical telescopes, which examine visible light waves. A radio telescope usually consists of a large dish structure, which captures the incoming radio waves, which are then interpreted as computer data. A crucial advantage of radio astronomy over optical astronomy is that radio waves cannot be obscured by dust, unlike light waves.
Why will the SKA be spread over such a large area?
Increasing the collection area covered by a radio telescope greatly increases the sensitivity of the instrument, allowing very faint radio waves from distant objects to be received. Spreading the SKA over thousands of kilometres will allow the most distant of cosmic objects to be examined. Extending the telescope to include New Zealand would thus increase the capability of a SKA based in Australia.
What can the SKA do?
When completed, the SKA will be more than 50 times more sensitive than any other radio telescope currently available. The SKA will be able to investigate key questions in physics and cosmology. For example, the SKA will enable scientists to examine the formation and evolution of stars and galaxies, including examining the early origins of the universe.
Who is building the SKA, and where?
The SKA is being developed by an international consortium of researchers, from 19 different countries around the world. The SKA is an initiative led by scientists, with increasing involvement from various national governments. The international consortium is currently considering two possible sites short-listed to host the SKA; the first bid is from Australia, the second is from a group of 6 southern African countries. A decision on where the SKA will be constructed is expected from the international consortium by 2011.
When will the SKA be built?
The SKA will be built in stages, starting from 2012, with construction expected to be completed by 2020.
How much will the SKA cost, and who will pay?
The current estimated cost of the SKA is AU$2 billion. Funding for the SKA will come from a large range of international sources, including both science institutions and interested national governments. The United States and the European Union are expected to provide a large proportion of the funding for the project.
What other large radio telescopes are already in existence?
There are currently radio telescopes in 25 countries around the world, some of which consist of multiple dishes, linked together as a single instrument. For example, the Very Large Array (VLA) radio telescope in the United States consists of 27 individual dishes spread over 36 kilometres.
What are the benefits for New Zealand?
Participation in the SKA with Australia could offer New Zealand benefits in science, economic development, and in the information and communications technology (ICT) area. The SKA could significantly boost New Zealand’s radio astronomy capability. Economic development opportunities could include civil engineering, construction and technology development. The SKA could offer significant ICT opportunities, in the construction of ICT infrastructure, and the development of SKA-related ICT technology.
What is the role played by Australia so far?
As part of the technology development process and to support its bid to host the SKA, Australia is funding (A$101 million) the Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder (ASKAP). The ASKAP will be a powerful radio telescope in its own right, and will act as an important test-bed for SKA technology.
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: The Wild West
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:03 pm Post Subject:
secondfield wrote:
Yep,
12-12
If you look at the website detail, It shows a planet (represented by a spherical grid) flying through space ... maybe when they turn the key to fire it up, off we go into the 'cosmic web' (another term the guy's at SKA are fond of using).
Maybe the particle accelerator at cern is the 'engine' and the SKA array is the navigation system?? MAD MAD MAD .. :o
Anyone seen the kiwi cult classic 'the quiet earth'???
Ahh secondfield you just beat me to my last spam, sorry "post"! Oh that's interesting indeed! The stuff I've seen/read about the Mayan "End Of History" prediction says 21-2012. And yeah, I linked to the CERN site after seeing a doco on that earlier in the year before I found you guys here - been popping on there occasionally to see if they've actually done the first fire-up yet and follow progress - which they seem to have delayed a little but it's imminent.
Certainly a lot of stuff to speculate on at the moment and for those not informed on ANY of this stuff I'd say almost impossible to get their heads around. I guess what gets to me the most are all the little suggestions in the mainstream media about "possible" (negative) outcomes that pop up whenever there is mention of this new science. This tends to feed my own feelings about negative reinforcement as a force or agent of change as if to get people to accept any possible outcome and then as a follow-on, to accept any possible suggestion by "experts" to fix it - what we know as effective propaganda, etc.
Interesting times alright and I'd prefer not to be in a position where us like-minded people end up saying "See, I told you so". I guess that may mean that the "positive" reinforcement (for want of a better description) that's necessary needs to somehow step-up. Although I feel that's starting to happen (maybe as part of a collective unconscious - you choose your own personal description) you have to wonder if it will be enough & in time to be effective however it happens. There's certainly much "proof" around to suggest that a lot of work has been done on suppressing the ability of the mind, in particular the unconscious, to act "naturally"! :shock:
But I do digress somewhat from the topic of this thread yet again.... :oops:
And yeah, my mind started wandering when I read "Pathfinder" too heh! It's obvious to me at least from everything I've seen so far about HAARP and all that stuff that there's a lot more to this than meets the eye (and ears) of most people...
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:55 pm Post Subject:
Crakka wrote:
(...maybe a mod can tidy up my mess & let me know what the rule is on self-editing )
Sorry I didn't get a more prompt reply to you on this Crakka... And thanks for drawing attention to the FAQ - I'll get that sorted.
We decided early on as a site policy not to allow posters to self-edit. We feel it encourages careful, considered and accurate posting (and proof-reading), hopefully making the forums a more enoyable read for everyone.We understand that this can sometimes be frustrating for posters or may seem heavy handed, but overall, we think that the forums are better for it and feel that generally speaking, the postings on Mysterious NZ are of a high standard. We are happy to fix up any errors if notified by private message or in the body of a post...
Thanks Secondfield I found the William Henry link interesting, from what I gather the LHC fires up on around the 10th or 11th of September, I dont think they want to run it at anything near full power though, it takes considerable time to warm up as I recall.
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:50 am Post Subject:
Deano wrote:
Thanks Secondfield I found the William Henry link interesting, from what I gather the LHC fires up on around the 10th or 11th of September, I dont think they want to run it at anything near full power though, it takes considerable time to warm up as I recall.
Hehe! The correct description might first be "takes considerable time to COOL DOWN" as everything has to be cryogenically chilled to a constant teperature in all areas before they can progress according to their public info :wink:
"It planned to circulate the first beams in May 2008. First collisions at high energy are expected mid-2008 with the first results from the experiments soon after."
Obviously there has been delays. Check the news link for minimal updates.
The most interesting quote from the front page that sums it all up to me has always been -
"Particle physics is the unbelievable in pursuit of the unimaginable."
If you were exceptionally cynical you could simply translate that to be -
"Particle physics is a load of bullshit"
Not necessarily my personal view but it might suit some...
SKA New Zealand project leader Sergei Gulyaev said sites in Southland and Northland were likely because they were ideally positioned geometrically to link into the project.
From todays 'Stuff' website
Geometrically speaking.
The obvious application would be in regards to antenna phasing. The signals received on the earths surface could be compared and analysed in relation to a known site as part of the geometric pattern of the network layout.. The geometric pattern of the entire system would become a mathmatical function utilised during signal analysis.
Interesting considerations are bought up if you relate this directly to Bruce Cathies groundbreaking research... amongst other things
"Particle physics is the unbelievable in pursuit of the unimaginable."
If you were exceptionally cynical you could simply translate that to be -
"Particle physics is a load of bullshit"
Indeed. If you are a bit of an ignoramus you could say that. But I see a hidden meaning in there Crakka.. you are onto something ..
Ask any one of the general poulace if they understand how radio really works or the intraciacies of a nuclear reaction, they will be able to explain it to you eh. :oops:
This must be utter rubbish if billions of dollars are spent on building this behemoth and getting the sucker to work according to their mythical thinking. Maybe thats where the artform lies.... getting something to conform to your ideas .. then proving them emprically. The power of the mind.... (will). Anyway, that opens up a whole new can of worms :shock:
The rest of us should get back to crystal gazing and fortune telling, while living in complete ignorance that the power of the crystal has been already unlocked and harnessed just over a century ago by pioneers like tesla, marconi, bardeen and schokley (transistors). I guess von neumann should get a mention in their as well.
I believe the word is 'Technology' .
What alot of superstious people would call 'magic' is mere technology. Which in turn can be 'fathomed' and understood by anyone willing to take the time to learn and understand it. :roll:
